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WARNING: I rear-ended someone today while using Auto Pilot in my brand new P90D!

Discussion in 'Model S' started by sandstruck, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. sandstruck

    sandstruck Member

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    I took delivery of my new P90D last weekend (trading in my model 85 from 2013) and downloaded Firmware 7.1 two days ago. I had used autopilot for a few days with Firmware 7.0 and found it wonderful (astounding). Today was the first day I tried it using 7.0.

    At about 8:30 AM this morning on I90 (road conditions perfect, visibility good), I was doing about 60 MPH and switched on Autopilot. I initiated a lane change with my turn signal and the car switched lanes seamlessly. My car automatically modulated my speed (with a two car distance) with the car in front of me, and I was cruising along happily when the car in front of me changed lanes and my car caught up to the car in front of him. After following this new car for a few minutes, the traffic began to slow.

    My car slowed as well. But when the car in front of me came to a complete stop (not a sudden emergency stop, but rather a gradual stop), I expected my car to do the same (as it had been doing previously). It didn't. I slammed on the brakes in that dreadful instance before I realized my car wouldn't stop in time, but I still hit the car in front of me (while going maybe 5-10 MPH). I'd like to mention that I consider myself a very safe driver and have never been involved in any accident before (I'm 52). I damaged that car's rear bumper and cracked the plastic cover on my new Tesla (see attached photo).

    After the police came (the other driver insisted we file an accident report) and I received a $120 ticket, I called Tesla's technical assistance. The gentleman I spoke with told me that the Autopilot function is "flawless" and that it was my responsibility, as the driver, to avoid any collision. I asked to speak with his supervisor who told me that this was the first time anything like this has ever happened, and found it "very strange." They were clearly intimating that I did something wrong.
     
  2. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Sorry to hear about your accident. I would have Tesla pull all the logs in your car immediately (if they haven't already).
     
  3. sandstruck

    sandstruck Member

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    #3 sandstruck, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2016

    I took delivery of my new car last weekend (trading in my model 85 from 2013) and downloaded Firmware 7.1 two days ago. I had used autopilot for a few days with Firmware 7.0 and found it wonderful (astounding). Today was the first day I tried it using 7.0.

    At about 8:30 AM this morning on I90 (road conditions perfect, visibility good), I was doing about 60 MPH and switched on Autopilot. I initiated a lane change with my turn signal and the car switched lanes seamlessly. My car automatically modulated my speed (with a two car distance) with the car in front of me, and I was cruising along happily when the car in front of me changed lanes and my car caught up to the car in front of him. After following this new car for a few minutes, the traffic began to slow.

    My car slowed as well. When the car in front of me came to a stop (not a sudden emergency stop, but rather a gradual stop), I expected my car to do the same (as it had been doing previously). It didn't. When I realized my car wouldn't stop in time, I hit the brakes, but it was too late, and I hit him going maybe 5-10 MPH. I'd like to mention that I consider myself a very safe driver and have never been involved in any accident before (I'm 52). I damaged that car's rear bumper and cracked the plastic cover on my new Tesla (see attached photo). ​

    After the police came (the other driver insisted we file an accident report) and I received a $120 ticket, I called Tesla's technical assistance. The gentleman I spoke with told me that the accident was my responsibility. I told him that I'm not that concerned about paying for the damage to the two cars: as a first adapter for AP I know I am legally liable. But as I go over the accident in my mind, there was absolutely nothing I could have done differently. You have to trust that your car will stop or you can't use the AP.

    They guy at Tesla said they will remotely run the logs from my car to see what happened. I hope Tesla will be transparent and not try to cover up anything. Tesla brethren, please be very careful with AP.​

    REAR END.jpg
     
  4. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    ANOTHER thread about this??? Why???

    Jeff
     
  5. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    3's a charm?
     
  6. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    That sucks. Sorry.

    Are you saying above that the car was slowing down by itself but did not do it in time?

    Have you used TACC a lot and if you used more than "two car dist" did you find other cars were coming between you and the car ahead?


     
  7. JenniferQ

    JenniferQ Member

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    If it sounds implausible, it probably is. This means TACC failed. Not AP. And that is very unlikely to happen.
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    As I stated in the previous thread, why didn't Automatic Emergency Braking kick in?
     
  9. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    If you had responded to the situation as any driver would have, you should have stopped on time. You trusted AP until it was too late, and that is a mistaken judgment call on your part. You should not have to trust AP. If you feel like you need to start braking in a given situation, then do it. Don't wait for AP to do it. You are NEVER supposed to trust AP, that is just wrong. You are supposed to be in control of the vehicle at all times, which means you DO NOT trust AP. Ever.
     
  10. cgiGuy

    cgiGuy Member

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    So, are you saying we shouldn't trust AP?
     
  11. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    That's a lot of distrust towards AP.
     
  12. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Ok, this is now in at least 3 different threads...

    Short answer: I'm sorry you got in a collision, but nobody has ever claimed that Autopilot can drive for you, it's still your responsibility to maintain complete control of the vehicle at all times. You should have braked sooner.
     
  13. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Please don't admit fault in writing on here.
     
  14. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    He rear ended someone, that's almost guaranteed fault right there, I know they say "never admit fault" but the police already thought it was his fault, and we all know his insurance will, and it's pretty much impossible that it isn't his fault.

    When you run in to a stationary vehicle, it is almost never someone else's fault.
     
  15. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    It's called discretion, and the more cars that are around you on the road (thicker the traffic), the more discretion you should have. Keep in mind that there is no point in which you should have no discretion towards auto-pilot, even if you are the only one on the road for miles.
     
  16. sandstruck

    sandstruck Member

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    Green1, I am certainly not trying to shirk responsibility. I accept it. But I wonder if you have used the AP feature yet. If you don't trust it, you can't use it at all. The car brakes for you (mine was set at a two car distance so other cars don't come into my lane). It had been working flawlessly until that point.
     
  17. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I use it frequently, every time I'm behind the wheel pretty much.
    If you don't feel you had enough time to stop, I suggest you adjust the following distance to a larger number.

    I trust it, but I also supervise it. The car doesn't drive itself, it's driver assistance, not self driving.
     
  18. bhzmark

    bhzmark Active Member

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    Are you 100% sure the car tacc/AP was tracking didn't change lanes and go around the stopped car that you hit?
     
  19. sandstruck

    sandstruck Member

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    As I stated in the previous thread, why didn't Automatic Emergency Braking kick in?

    I am wondering the same thing. Also, I'm not trying to shirk responsibility, but if the car stops at a two car distance twenty times in a row, and on the twenty-first time it doesn't, you won't have enough time to stop. You either trust AP or you can't use it.
     
  20. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    WRONG. If you don't have enough room to stop, then one of 2 things is happening:
    1) you aren't paying enough attention to what it's doing, and failed to intervene early enough
    2) you have it set to follow too close and need to back it off so that you have enough time to react.

    As autopilot is currently only a driving aid, and not self driving, there is currently only one possible way for AP to cause a collision, and that's by failing to relinquish control to the driver when requested. As you haven't suggested that the car did this, then you must take FULL responsibility, not just the type of responsibility where you say "it's me but I couldn't have prevented it"
     

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