Warning: You can get FSD beta strike for any forced disengagement, even with FSD beta disabled in settings...

[Guruguys]

Today I was midway into an hour and twenty minute long drive, mostly highway but several times traffic came to stop for quite some time. Unfortunately I received a few phone calls and I could hear the caller through the Tesla speakers but they could not hear me talk. While stopped in traffic I disabled autopilot, I then disabled full self driving beta in settings, then reengaged autopilot (normal highway stack) to deal with stop and go traffic. I figured maybe the phone was at fault so I grabbed it turn bluetooth off then on, of course autopilot complained right away even though I had a hand on wheel, was moving 1-2 mph and coming back to a stop and was looking forward so I torqued the wheel. No problem there. Bluetooth did not fix the issue and the caller called back same problem, could hear them, they couldn't hear me. This time I reset my phone, of course this requires me to grab phone to do pattern since you cant use fingerprint on reboot. Again autopilot noticed this, nag me, and I acknowledged immediately. My calling feature was still not resolved - in traffic there was no way to answer phone or exit freeway. This time I had take the call so I disabled bluetooth on tesla screen and put the phone itself on speaker. This time, with only a second notice, autopilot disengaged and told me I could not use for rest of drive. Fine. While sitting in more traffic I restarted the tesla computer by holding the steering wheel buttons and used my phone's speaker to take the call. After the tesla rebooted it took control of the call and worked fine, so the problem was with Tesla bluetooth side of communication not the phone after all that All things fine I thought. and I continue driving home for another 30 minutes without autopilot since I didnt want to get off the freeway, pull over, park and start a new 'drive'.

Unfortunately I got back in the car for another trip a bit later and was greeted with a FSD beta strike for forced autopilot disengagement. Basically I learned it doesn't matter if you have FSD beta turned off in the settings you still get a FSD beta strike if you get a forced disengagement with normal highway autopilot. (or at the very least you do if you disabled FSD beta during the same 'drive' like I did, its possible the 'strike' and 'aggressive monitoring' function checks to see if FSD beta is enabled at the beginning of the 'drive' and assumes it is one the entire 'drive', even if you turn it off during that drive, dunno and I am not going to try to start with it off and intentionally get a forced disengagement on non fsd autopilot).

 

[T-Mom]

Unless I am misunderstanding something about this post, there is nothing new about this. It's been that was since the beginning.

 

[Guruguys]

Perhaps. I didn't realize that you got strikes even with FSD beta disabled in settings. I am sure others might assume the same so just putting it out there as a FYI.

 

[KLam]

You will find that if you start driving with FSD Beta disabled, you cannot enable FSD Beta during the drive. You have to stop the car to enable FSD Beta. So I think you cannot disable FSD Beta during a drive.

During a drive (AP, NOA, or City Beta) with FSD Beta enabled, if you get hands on Steering wheel warnings which did not go away immediately on your compliance, tap the brake to disengage!!

During a drive (AP, NOA, ), do not try to pass a slower car you are following by using the accelerator. You can easily exceed the Max Speed Limit and get kicked out (Red Steering wheel warnings) for the rest of the drive. Brake to disengage before you do the manual passing.

 

[Guruguys]

You can disable full self-driving during a drive and when you enable autopilot after that during the same drive you can tell it's disabled because you no longer have the FSD graphics or features on non-highway streets, so all the functions are disabled, but you can still get a be FSD beta strike during that situation.

Your methods for disengaging are correct, and you can get canceled for exceeding speed limit but you don't get a strike for that on FSD.

As far as disengaging by tapping on brakes or moving steering wheel to avoid the strike, that is usually the case, however with full self driving monitoring once you get a few warnings on the same drive the tolerance goes to zero and you get an instant strike without a chance to disengage with brake etc. The disengage ment happens instantly as soon as it starts warning you when it's ready to give it to you especially if it thinks the warnings were because you are using your phone. Many people may not have this issue, but some of us who drive 100 miles plus a day and have to experience a lot of different traffic situations (especially stop and go traffic on highways that make a long drive time) are going to be much more likely to experience multiple warnings on a single drive and get 'instant strike's.

Personally I think it would be more fair if they reset strikes based on number of miles driven so those of us who drive 3 to 4 times the amount vs average Tesla driver does are not as penalized. It would be nice if it could lesson tolerance just a bit when you are driving at 1-2 mph as I have noticed most of my warnings/strikes happened after I am sitting still and right when the car starts moving 1-2mph to inch up again then stop while on highway stack autopilot.

 

[KLam]

Most of my drives are on local city streets for short distances. So I seldom engage FSD Beta as its more troublesome handling the errors of FSD Beta and worry about the strikes.

I use mainly NOA on my drives from LA to SF and back. I have noticed that the hands on steering wheels nags usually comes when approaching a semi truck on the right, approaching a merge lane on the right, approaching more traffic on the right etc. Stay away from the right most lane will give less trouble. Stop and go traffic on the 405 seems to give me more warnings.

 

[Guruguys]

I use mainly NOA on my drives from LA to SF and back. I have noticed that the hands on steering wheels nags usually comes when approaching a semi truck on the right, approaching a merge lane on the right, approaching more traffic on the right etc. Stay away from the right most lane will give less trouble. Stop and go traffic on the 405 seems to give me more warnings.

These are good tips - anytime I am on NOA or FSDB, especially in situations with pedestrians, traffic cones, construction, etc, I am 'super hyper aware', really anytime I am moving at speed I stay 'hyper aware'. I will admit that after years of learning to trust 'NOA' I am a bit more relaxed on long highway drives, but certainly in situations you speak of even on NOA, its time to be 'super hyper aware'. My issues are in stop in go traffic on NOA on the highway, which can sometimes be 15-30 minutes at a time, in these instances you naturally relax a bit since a lot of the time you are not moving. Tesla autopilot (as well as many other manufactures 'adaptive cruise control') handles these situations when you are are moving a few feet at a time, at very low speed just fine and has for years. Before the internet jumps on me for saying relax, I am not saying 'relax = grab phone and start watching youtube or read a book', I just mean I might actually take hands off wheel for a few second while stretching, or change the music on the Telsa screen (if Tesla would ever fix voice commands when using USB drive music I wouldn't even have to do that), or in my original case reboot the Tesla PC to try to fix my phone call issue through hands free.

With access to FSDB, even if you turn it off in settings, it seems to do what I will call 'aggressive monitoring checks' the second your car starts moving from a stop. These checks go nuts if it thinks you are not looking at the road, looking at the screen, or have anything in your hand. If you get a couple of these checks on the same 'drive' it goes to the 'instant strike' on you where you don't get time to disengage etc. These 'aggressive checks' happen at times that are the lowest risk of anything 'bad' happening, when you and other traffic are sitting still or moving at extremally low speeds, etc,. They happen far more quickly than if you are actually driving since it does it every time your car goes from sitting at a complete top to moving forward a few feet then stopping again as the car in front of you does the same over and over. This happens at traffic lights too when you are stuck at the same light for multiple light cycles and people seem to randomly move up a few feet to close some gap for no reason (then everyone behind them follows) so the Tesla does the same many times in a row.

I mainly wish they could lower the 'aggressiveness' in these situations or just let me turn off FSDB and use normal autopilot when I want to without fear of strikes like I could before I was 'enrolled'.

 

[KLam]

I wonder if the "aggressive" check will go away if you start a new drive. On slow enough traffic maybe it will work if you just shift into Park, then start a new drive.

 

[Guruguys]

I wonder if the "aggressive" check will go away if you start a new drive. On slow enough traffic maybe it will work if you just shift into Park, then start a new drive.

That's a decent idea, I believe you actually have to remove the seat belt and possibly also crack the door open and closed real quick to get it to register a new drive, but I can test that theory without risking a strike. At the very least I bet it would reset the 'instant strike' count.

 

[KLam]

How about the two finger salute reset?

 

[Raurele]

You will find that if you start driving with FSD Beta disabled, you cannot enable FSD Beta during the drive. You have to stop the car to enable FSD Beta. So I think you cannot disable FSD Beta during a drive.

During a drive (AP, NOA, or City Beta) with FSD Beta enabled, if you get hands on Steering wheel warnings which did not go away immediately on your compliance, tap the brake to disengage!!

During a drive (AP, NOA, ), do not try to pass a slower car you are following by using the accelerator. You can easily exceed the Max Speed Limit and get kicked out (Red Steering wheel warnings) for the rest of the drive. Brake to disengage before you do the manual passing.

That’s wrong. I switch between profiles all the time because part of my route doesn’t do FSD well. One has beta disabled and it uses regular AP.

 

[Guruguys]

I didn't say it doesn't use regular AP, I said you still get a FSD beta strike if you get a force disengagement even though it is using regular AP when self-driving beta is disabled.

 

[KLam]

That’s wrong. I switch between profiles all the time because part of my route doesn’t do FSD well. One has beta disabled and it uses regular AP.

Do you mean that if I got kicked out of AP, NOA or FSD Beta, I could just switch profiles and be able to get AP, NOA or FSD Beta back without stopping the car?

Or you meant that you can switch from a FSD Beta enabled drive to FSD Beta disabled at the same drive by switching profile and subsequently got kicked out and not counted as a Strike on the FSD Beta enabled profile?

 

[KLam]

So, I created another profile with FSD Beta disabled. Indeed, I can enable FSD Beta with the FSD Beta Enabled profile switch while driving on the FSD Beta Disabled profile.

The question now is if I started the drive with the FSD Beta Disabled profile, whether strikes will count on the FSD Beta?

Another question would be if I switch from FSD Beta Enabled profile to FSD Beta Disabled profile during a drive, whether strikes after the switch will count on the FSD Beta?

 

[hw13]

During a drive (AP, NOA, ), do not try to pass a slower car you are following by using the accelerator. You can easily exceed the Max Speed Limit and get kicked out (Red Steering wheel warnings) for the rest of the drive. Brake to disengage before you do the manual passing.

Does NOA disengagement count as Beta strike?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Does NOA disengagement count as Beta strike?

If it is for inattention, yes. Not for excessive speed, and also disablement of lane keeping features will not result in strikes.

If you do not keep your eyes on the road, or you do not satisfy the wheel torque requirements, eventually you will be disabled with a strike. If you get one beep type warning, best to stop using FSD/AP entirely for the remainder of the drive. You are not able to monitor the system; drive manually, it is safer (for now).

 

[TeslАDM]

Today I was midway into an hour and twenty minute long drive, mostly highway but several times traffic came to stop for quite some time. Unfortunately I received a few phone calls and I could hear the caller through the Tesla speakers but they could not hear me talk. While stopped in traffic I disabled autopilot, I then disabled full self driving beta in settings, then reengaged autopilot (normal highway stack) to deal with stop and go traffic. I figured maybe the phone was at fault so I grabbed it turn bluetooth off then on, of course autopilot complained right away even though I had a hand on wheel, was moving 1-2 mph and coming back to a stop and was looking forward so I torqued the wheel. No problem there. Bluetooth did not fix the issue and the caller called back same problem, could hear them, they couldn't hear me. This time I reset my phone, of course this requires me to grab phone to do pattern since you cant use fingerprint on reboot. Again autopilot noticed this, nag me, and I acknowledged immediately. My calling feature was still not resolved - in traffic there was no way to answer phone or exit freeway. This time I had take the call so I disabled bluetooth on tesla screen and put the phone itself on speaker. This time, with only a second notice, autopilot disengaged and told me I could not use for rest of drive. Fine. While sitting in more traffic I restarted the tesla computer by holding the steering wheel buttons and used my phone's speaker to take the call. After the tesla rebooted it took control of the call and worked fine, so the problem was with Tesla bluetooth side of communication not the phone after all that All things fine I thought. and I continue driving home for another 30 minutes without autopilot since I didnt want to get off the freeway, pull over, park and start a new 'drive'.

Unfortunately I got back in the car for another trip a bit later and was greeted with a FSD beta strike for forced autopilot disengagement. Basically I learned it doesn't matter if you have FSD beta turned off in the settings you still get a FSD beta strike if you get a forced disengagement with normal highway autopilot. (or at the very least you do if you disabled FSD beta during the same 'drive' like I did, its possible the 'strike' and 'aggressive monitoring' function checks to see if FSD beta is enabled at the beginning of the 'drive' and assumes it is one the entire 'drive', even if you turn it off during that drive, dunno and I am not going to try to start with it off and intentionally get a forced disengagement on non fsd autopilot).

No strike but I noticed odd behavior too, just updated to Tesla Vision and was on NOA, not FsD. On today's trip, on a divided two lane highway, in heavy stop and go traffic 5-15mph, I was getting torque AP nags immediately upon letting go of the steering wheel, as in less than a second after letting go.

I do have my internal camera taped over. In the past in slow traffic I could go MINUTES without a nag.

 

[Yelobird]

No strike but I noticed odd behavior too, just updated to Tesla Vision and was on NOA, not FsD. On today's trip, on a divided two lane highway, in heavy stop and go traffic 5-15mph, I was getting torque AP nags immediately upon letting go of the steering wheel, as in less than a second after letting go.

I do have my internal camera taped over. In the past in slow traffic I could go MINUTES without a nag.

Let go of steering wheel get nag. Pretty simple.

 

[hw13]

Verified: A forced disengagement with Beta off does not count as a strike.

 

[Helen20100]

Today I was midway into an hour and twenty minute long drive, mostly highway but several times traffic came to stop for quite some time. Unfortunately I received a few phone calls and I could hear the caller through the Tesla speakers but they could not hear me talk. While stopped in traffic I disabled autopilot, I then disabled full self driving beta in settings, then reengaged autopilot (normal highway stack) to deal with stop and go traffic. I figured maybe the phone was at fault so I grabbed it turn bluetooth off then on, of course autopilot complained right away even though I had a hand on wheel, was moving 1-2 mph and coming back to a stop and was looking forward so I torqued the wheel. No problem there. Bluetooth did not fix the issue and the caller called back same problem, could hear them, they couldn't hear me. This time I reset my phone, of course this requires me to grab phone to do pattern since you cant use fingerprint on reboot. Again autopilot noticed this, nag me, and I acknowledged immediately. My calling feature was still not resolved - in traffic there was no way to answer phone or exit freeway. This time I had take the call so I disabled bluetooth on tesla screen and put the phone itself on speaker. This time, with only a second notice, autopilot disengaged and told me I could not use for rest of drive. Fine. While sitting in more traffic I restarted the tesla computer by holding the steering wheel buttons and used my phone's speaker to take the call. After the tesla rebooted it took control of the call and worked fine, so the problem was with Tesla bluetooth side of communication not the phone after all that All things fine I thought. and I continue driving home for another 30 minutes without autopilot since I didnt want to get off the freeway, pull over, park and start a new 'drive'.

Unfortunately I got back in the car for another trip a bit later and was greeted with a FSD beta strike for forced autopilot disengagement. Basically I learned it doesn't matter if you have FSD beta turned off in the settings you still get a FSD beta strike if you get a forced disengagement with normal highway autopilot. (or at the very least you do if you disabled FSD beta during the same 'drive' like I did, its possible the 'strike' and 'aggressive monitoring' function checks to see if FSD beta is enabled at the beginning of the 'drive' and assumes it is one the entire 'drive', even if you turn it off during that drive, dunno and I am not going to try to start with it off and intentionally get a forced disengagement on non fsd autopilot).

Thanks for sharing.
I had FSD Beta 2 days ago. This morning, (Sept, 22th 2022), between 10am to 10:20 am, while I had activated the autopilot, I had both hands on the steering wheel without holding it firmly and I was hyper-vigilant to what was happening in front of me (because the car did crazy things yesterday). I didn't see the white light but from the moment I got the warning sound I moved the yoke several times, quite firmly, for two to three seconds without success and still got a disabling the autopilot. This is unacceptable.
In the last 2 days, I reported some bugs while tapping the camera. However, what happened this morning does not encourage me to continue contributing to the development of the autopilot.