warranty/maintenance speculation/3G

[kevincwelch]

Hi, everyone.

Was interested to hear opinions or extrapolations (based on the Roadster) of how much this suggested annual battery maintenance/inspection will cost us and whether the battery warranty will be contingent upon that scheduled maintenance.

Also, how many just plan to tether their Model S vehicles to their cell phones? I'm irked about having to pay for a monthly 3G service.

 

[jerry33]

Also, how many just plan to tether their Model S vehicles to their cell phones? I'm irked about having to pay for a monthly 3G service.

It will be an increase for me either way because I'd have to pay extra for tethering. However, if you use WiFi only and have a technology package, you may be able to get out of the additional monthly fee (Note to Tesla: It should be more palatable if the 3G connection is part of the annual maintenance fee). My understanding is that with the technology package the map is downloaded rather than just on-line and updates when you are connected to WiFi should be enough. I don't see much advantage to using the browser when you're not connected by WiFi (looking up restaurants and such), especially as you'll likely have one or two other devices with you that are capable of that without paying extra.

If you purchase an $85,000 car, you shouldn't be nickeled and dimed to death.

 

[MarkR]

If you purchase an $85,000 car, you shouldn't be nickeled and dimed to death.

Seems to me that we are already being nickel and dimed a lot - $250 for a parcel shelf? $750 for a paint color other than black or white? Tesla appears to believe that since we can afford an $85k car that the cost of 3G should be no big deal.

 

[jerry33]

Seems to me that we are already being nickel and dimed a lot - $250 for a parcel shelf? $750 for a paint color other than black or white? Tesla appears to believe that since we can afford an $85k car that the cost of 3G should be no big deal.

$20/month is nickel and dimeing. $250 for a parcel shelf that should be included at no cost is a lot worse. I can actually see the increase for the paint because there are more layers in the metallic than black and white (assuming my understanding of how the paint is applied is correct--I no longer seem to be able to find the link with the explanation).

 

[rlawson4]

As much as I don't want to pay for the data service, I have to disagree. It's not nickel and dimeing to have the customer pay the third party provider the cost of the service. That being said, any paint color should be included at the price we are paying (and not to beat a dead horse) and the downgrade to 19" wheels should get some store credit towards other options.

 

[rabar10]

RE: annual maintenance charges, Agileone reported this on the Canadian Beta tour thread:

- Eli mentioned that annual maintenance would be less than the Roadster. He did point out that working on the Roadster was a lot more work that Model S will be because of the packaging

Roadster maintenance is $600/yr IIRC, so there's at least an upper bound...

 

[dsm363]

Charging more for different paint colors isn't anything new (more for metallic paint....etc). I don't really see a problem with that. Remember, the base Model S is really more of a $40,000 car. You're just prepaying for 5 years of fuel so to speak with the battery pack.

I agree. Paying someone like AT&T for data service makes sense. Tesla shouldn't have to eat that cost. They could always include it and just increase the base price on everyone. Even the people who didn't want it.

 

[Jeeps17]

I agree that charging extra ($250) for the parcel shelf is one thing that strikes me as nickel & diming... Most cars that I've owned that had rear hatches similar to the S had this included.

Tesla may think that since the frunk is enclosed, having cargo concealement in the rear is optional...

Also +1 for the lack of credit for wheel downgrade.

 

[DrComputer]

Remember, Tesla is now going to have to compete with other mainstream car companies with the S. If you look at Lexus, for example, they do charge an additional yearly fee to use their Lexus Link and Lexus Enform telemetric services (up to $600 a year depending on the service level you choose). So, I don't think it will be unacceptable is Tesla charges a monthly or yearly fee for their data and map services. I agree with what others have suggested that it be included in the yearly maintenance fee.

 

[kevincwelch]

I guess I agree with paying for the 3G if it is a 3rd party provider. I suppose my real worry with this is paying some premium for having it that would be above and beyond what the actual service is worth. And furthermore, it's 3G. Not even 4G or LTE.

It just strikes me as ironic that Tesla has this in store app that seems to suggest to the purchaser that the annual cost of (for example) my vehicle with 10k annual miles would be $311 v. $1727 for a gas engine at 22 mpg. (Actually, my Honda Accord costs me about $1300/yr with gas and oil changes. I haven't had a single faulty part in the 5 years I've owned it.) Add on $1000 for an annual battery maintenance and $100/mo for internet access, and the cost of owning a Tesla is more than owning a comparably priced car.

The parcel shelf price is ridiculous, especially given that it should be included.

Paint: there should be some no cost options.

I suppose, however, that the real selling points are the environmental benefits and the fact that you'll be ahead of the curve. The way I calculate it, my other options would have been an Infiniti G37 or a Audi A4 or an Acura TL. Either way, owning a gas engine one of these would be cheaper in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, the Model S is a really cool car with an innovative base. However, I think Tesla spends a lot of time marketing aspects of owning the car that just really don't pan out for a lot of owners, including myself, when it comes to the financial aspects.

But, honestly, the way my car specs out:

60 kWh: 59900 + 7500 = $67400
Paint (I want black anyway): $0
Sunroof (I'm not a sunroof guy): $0
19" wheels: $0
Nappa Leather: $1500
Tech: $3750 (I honestly don't know why I would need this)
Air suspension: $1500
Rear seats: $1500
Total: $75,650
Tax: $7,565
Grand total: $83,215

Now, I'll eventually get the $7500 tax credit, and Illinois reportedly has a $4000 credit depending on funds. So, this might knock $11500 off the price, which will bring it down to $71,715. However, the state of Illinois is corrupt and broke, so I'm not counting on the $4000.

 

[swegman]

One reason people pay for Lexus's or GM's service is because if there is an accident, the car notifies the center and police/ambulance are sent to the scene. Tesla does not have this feature, based upon my discussions with them.

 

[dsm363]

kevincwelch: Where did you get $100/month for internet access and $1,000 annual service? That's even more than they charge for the Roadster's annual service. It does suck that there will be another device I will have to pay data for if I want that feature (home, iPhone, iPad..etc) but it is something you can drive and use the car without if you don't want to pay for it. I don't know of any other manufacturers that offer free lifetime internet connectivity in their cars.

While they aren't really compelling choices, there are the black and white paint options at no cost as you stated. You'd prefer black anyway you said.

While I agree that the economics of owning the Model S may not be as rosy as Tesla says, that doesn't take away the appeal of owning the car for me. It's about the fun of driving electric, being ahead of the curve as you pointed out, the environment and the fact that my car is powered by domestic sources of energy (be that natural gas, coal, wind or solar).

 

[jerry33]

I suppose, however, that the real selling points are the environmental benefits and the fact that you'll be ahead of the curve. The way I calculate it, my other options would have been an Infiniti G37 or a Audi A4 or an Acura TL.

Well, there is no way that the Model S will be less expensive than my current Prius. However, one of the big benefits of the Tesla is not having to get service at the Toyota dealer. I looked at a Leaf but in the end didn't get one because of the really poor dealers (who seemed to be just as bad as the Toyota dealers). The 60 mile range-when-new didn't help Nissan sell me a car either.

Now, I'll eventually get the $7500 tax credit, and Illinois reportedly has a $4000 credit depending on funds. So, this might knock $11500 off the price, which will bring it down to $71,715. However, the state of Illinois is corrupt and broke, so I'm not counting on the $4000.

Depending on funds always means that it isn't going to happen and that the legislation was only passed to satisfy the voters. There was never any intention to give any credit.

 

[kevincwelch]

kevincwelch: Where did you get $100/month for internet access and $1,000 annual service?

I don't have any numbers. I made those up. I am just being liberal in the sense that that's about how much the cell phone service costs and about how much the internet component of my home internet costs.

The rep in the store said the annual service would take about 3-4 hours and involved removing the battery, testing it, greasing up the ball bearings in the motor, and putting it back together. I'm ball parking the cost.

I think this will be a sticking point for many: how much is this going to cost and if battery warranty is contingent upon going through a company-sponsored annual maintenance. What better way that to deny a warranty claim other than to say "This could have been prevented if you had come in for your annual battery checkup." (True or not...)

 

[kevincwelch]

Depending on funds always means that it isn't going to happen and that the legislation was only passed to satisfy the voters. There was never any intention to give any credit.

I'm sure, which is why I'll apply but won't hold my breath.

 

[Doug_G]

The rep in the store said the annual service would take about 3-4 hours and involved removing the battery, testing it, greasing up the ball bearings in the motor, and putting it back together. I'm ball parking the cost.

It is highly unlikely that there would be any reason to remove the battery for annual service.

 

[dsm363]

It is highly unlikely that there would be any reason to remove the battery for annual service.

I agree. The rep must have been incorrect. This would effectively rule out Tesla Ranger service as counting for the annual service as it would be impossible for them to remove your 1,000 pound battery pack in your garage. They can likely check the battery pack with a laptop as they do now or remotely over your 3G data connection in the car.

I don't have any numbers. I made those up. I am just being liberal in the sense that that's about how much the cell phone service costs and about how much the internet component of my home internet costs.

The rep in the store said the annual service would take about 3-4 hours and involved removing the battery, testing it, greasing up the ball bearings in the motor, and putting it back together. I'm ball parking the cost.

I could see $40-50 a month for the internet connection but we'll see what they do I guess.

 

[kevincwelch]

It is highly unlikely that there would be any reason to remove the battery for annual service.

Well that's good to know. I did have a lingering question about how that was going to be done if you elected to have them come to your house.

 

[dsm363]

It's physically impossible for them to remove the Roadster's battery pack in the field and they are able to evaluate the battery. They do a battery bleed test they call it.

 

[kevincwelch]

It's physically impossible for them to remove the Roadster's battery pack in the field and they are able to evaluate the battery. They do a battery bleed test they call it.

It's just odd that the sale rep would suggest otherwise. He said something about the fact that the battery was bolted onto the frame rather than welded on so that it could be more easily removed.

I wish there were more fine print out there to read, but I guess that will be the benefit of being #9000+ on the list: I get to learn from 9000 others!