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Warranty of Battery...

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Alipapa, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Alipapa

    Alipapa Member

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    Guys, I wonder in what condition Tesla will replace the Batteries in the car?

    Cause all it says on the web site is 8 years unlimited warranty, but I couldn't find any additional information about it.

    I hope we don't have to wait until half of the batteries gone dead in order to get them replace...
     
  2. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Degredation is not covered by warranty ....

    What I recall reading was very vague but I can only assume if a failure occurred that made the car simply not run or an internal failure that prevented recharging .....would be covered.
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    I would also think that if degradation was caused by manufacturing defect that would be covered.
    Some degradation is normal. How much degradation can be affected by how often you use a range charge, temperatures, how often you run through cycles, etc.
    Numbers I have seen from some Roadster owners is about a 1.7% range loss every 10,000 miles. However that also seems to slow down over time. I lost about 3% in 27,000 miles over 27 months in my Roadster.
     
  4. Enadler

    Enadler Member

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    I just completed my final paperwork and was trying to get more clarity on this as well. It appears that capacity degradation is not covered but what is most concerning is that there is no criteria listed for what is normal and acceptable vs abnormal. It would appear that unless the battery completely loses its ability to hold a charge then Tesla would not cover it under warranty. The fact that they don't list or describe what is normal is a little disturbing. I will be very upset if after 3 or 4 years my 85kw battery only has an effective range of 175 miles and not be covered under warranty.
     
  5. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Roll the dice!

    But seriously ... Roadster owners appear to be satisfied with their batteries and the S's systems are supposed to be superior to the Roadsters.
     
  6. toto_48313

    toto_48313 CAN P #5

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    You have to sign a document stating that the "gradual" degradation is not cover.
    However having a definition of "gradual" is complex as it could be anywere from 1% per year to 20 % or more... There is no way to get a number because it may legally put Tesla in some trouble.
    I'm confident that if you got around 20 % degradation Tesla will cover your battery as it should be under 5 % a year but you'll have to deal with them in a gentle agreement, not at the court.
     
  7. ViperDoc

    ViperDoc Roadster 1305

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    I am a Roadster owner and was told that the battery should maintain 70% of original capacity at 7-10 years out. I was left with the feeling that they would use the 70% at 7 years as a reflection of normal wear. However, because you can wear the batter down faster with frequent range charging (eg, full capacity) and possibly with aggressive driving, I don't know how they would decide if the deterioration was due to driving style or battery "failure". Perhaps they would look at charging logs and have a way to decide.
     
  8. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Don't know if the same is true for the Model S, but a senior Nissan official stated that a complete battery replacement is rarely necessary for the LEAF. More likely there will be a few bad cells that can be individually replaced on a case-by-case basis. Any indication that Tesla would do the same should owners observe higher than normal degradation?
     
  9. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    @apacheguy: Tesla has replaced "sheets" of cells in Roadsters rather than whole batteries, and I think something similar will happen with Model S batteries.
     
  10. strider

    strider Active Member

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    A warranty for any product is to protect you from design or manufacturing defects that show up after you take possession and within the warranty period. Warranties are not to replace things due to wear and tear. Battery degradation is part of the state of the art of batteries today.

    Here's how the battery warranty has worked for Roadsters. As part of my explanation you'll get a bit of a battery pack primer...

    We all know that Tesla battery packs are made up of thousands of 18650 cells. These cells are bundled into bricks and then bricks are bundled into sheets. You can only charge or discharge to the capacity of your weakest brick. So if you have one brick lower than the others, when that brick reaches zero (not real zero, Tesla-determined zero) then the car will stop driving even though the other bricks may have power because you would risk discharging the weak brick too deeply and ruining the cells. The same thing goes for charging. Once that weak brick is full you have to stop charging else you risk overcharging the weak brick and ruining the cells. The car does have the ability to balance the bricks to try and keep them at the same level. This means that the car's range will be the range of the weakest brick.

    So what does this have to do with the warranty. Say your range does drop to 175 miles. Tesla will run diagnostics on the car and they will be able to determine whether all the bricks are degraded equally resulting in the decreased range or if the range drop is the result of 1 or 2 bricks that are lower than all the others. In the first instance, you do not have a warranty claim as all the bricks have degraded together. In the second instance you do and Tesla will replace the defective bricks (I believe they replace at the sheet level).

    I also expect an aftermarket to develop in which folks will refurbish out of warranty batteries by replacing low bricks/sheets so you won't have to replace the entire pack.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Of course, that's for the Roadster. In the Model S, Tesla may find it more economical to just replace the entire pack and refurbish the one with the bad group of cells. No way to tell at this point.
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Thanks for the succinct primer, strider. I was somewhat familiar with the content (from haunting the Roadster sub-forums a bit) but this helps formalize it.
     
  13. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    having owned a Leaf and watched the public relations train wreck Nissan has had over hot climate rapid decline, this was a top concern of mine when I first showed up at a Tesla showroom. I described the way Nissan has stretched the term "gradual" in a way that has infuriated some owners, some have even reported that they have found that the battery gauge was reset after servicing to hide loss. What I've been told by Roadster owners was confirmed in the showroom, Tesla doesn't mince words. Gradual capacity loss is not covered, but rapid loss would most likely be a warranty replacement long before the battery actually died. Customer satisfaction is goal number one at Tesla. Putting a thousand miles on my S so far has pretty much put to rest all those little niggling worries... the car is disruptive to the industry, gas or electric, in pretty much every way!
     

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