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Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

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I'm still of the opinion that what Tesla's doing and what most folk are used to is very different. Tesla is doing what amounts to production machine maintenance, and most people are used to consumer maintenance. If you do production machine style maintenance[SUP]*[/SUP] on a normal ICE car it will cost far more than Tesla's price.

Now I'm not happy about it, and I think that the 12,500 mile interval is ridiculous for an electric car in the 21st century because, to refer to George B's example, the brake pad could be monitored rather than physically inspected, unless of course the owner detected a problem and then a physical examination would be required. (And if that's every car or even a large minority of the cars, then there is a serious problem.) Citroën had a light in the dash that indicated when the pads were low in 1965 on the DS-21 (maybe they did it even earlier, but I had a 1965 model) and that was almost fifty years ago. (I was still on the original pads at 120,000 miles, so I never actually saw the light.)

I also think it's rather silly that the car warranty and the battery warranty aren't identical (both eight years or 100,000 miles). If you then matched the maintenance, you could at least say that costs were fixed for eight years or 100,000 miles. That would be something that no other car company does (unless some the the exotics do). Of course, you could still whine about what happens after eight years.

[SUP]*[/SUP]production machine style maintenance means maintenance done so that you virtually never experience down time. Parts are replaced when they show the slightest wear, hoses are replaced on a schedule, and software and sometimes hardware upgrades are included. The Cisco example given earlier comes to mind although obviously A Cisco router has far fewer mechanical parts.
 
Here is a model I would find acceptable.

Option 1 - Pay $600 at time of service for the first 8 years
Option 2 - Pay $475 a year prepaid at year 1 and year 5 for covering the first * years
Option 3 - I'll bring the car in for inspection at whatever interval Tesla want me to but I'll just pay for consumables and labor to replace those consumables. I suspect this would be next to nothing in year 1-3
 
Bonnie, I see your point :wink:

How do you explain this statement directly from George?



As I read this, George is not saying that you have to buy the service plan, but he is saying that you must have your car inspected annually or at every 12,500 miles. As far as I see it, you can buy this service from Tesla for $600/y or prepay it at $475/y. At present, there seems to be no other option (e.g., pay as you go). Therefore, you must buy the service plan at this point to get your car inspected. If you do not get your car inspected, your warranty is voided.

And that's exactly what I said. The service plan is not required, you can pay as you go (as current Roadster owners do). George said that the failure to do the annual service is what voids the warranty, not failure to buy a service plan in advance. Pay for the servicing when you get it serviced. We have no disagreement.
 
I posted earlier that Toyota allows customer service of the Rav 4 EV! It is the same drive train!! What's the big deal? If customers want to do the basic maintenance why not let them? Give them the check off list they need to accomplish, make the materials available and there you go. That said, I'm getting the service. I would prefer to do it myself, but appreciate the ranger expertice and would prefer to have the best eyes available look over my car.
 
Indeed. Furthermore, pointing out the hypocrisy of advertising low maintenance then charging more for maintenance than many luxury conventional vehicles just isn't a good business model. ...

I can spout off about low EV maintenance, but then I have to admit it still costs the same...or more than other cars. I'll be able to soften that a bit by saying towing is included--but the obvious retort is 'If it's so reliable, why would you need to tow it, and how often that everyone who buys the car has to prepay for it?" Hard to answer that one.

...
+1
The biggest problem with what GeorgeB has said is that we have no choice if we don't like it. I signed the MVPA based in part on years of Tesla rhetoric about how EVs are cheaper to maintain. Now they're keeping all the savings and saying if you don't like it you either lose your warranty or lose your deposit. And please don't compare the price to maintenance plans for gassers. EVs have virtually no consumables. It wouldn't be so bad if experienced mechanics like Strider and myself and others were at least offered a chance to do most of it ourselves and just pay a reasonable fee for the computer diagnostics, skipping the consumables, towing and roadside maintenance.

And what an embarrassment to justify it by saying it covers brake pads! Are they joking?
 
And that's exactly what I said. The service plan is not required, you can pay as you go (as current Roadster owners do). George said that the failure to do the annual service is what voids the warranty, not failure to buy a service plan in advance. Pay for the servicing when you get it serviced. We have no disagreement.

Er, right...

For some reason, I didn't completely jot down what was on my mind. I think the crux of the what I am trying to get across is that what you do has to be done through Tesla and you have to pay Tesla to get it, or else your warranty is void. Unless I misread what George wrote, you have to buy the service (either at $600/y or prepaid) from Tesla in order to satisfy the warranty agreement.

I think we agree on most of the semantics, but it's the forced purchase from Tesla and the contingency that is of concern to me.
 
...
However, what irks me is that there are many people who finalized their order and THEN were informed of this new requirement. (I suppose it's not really the cost itself that bothers me, but the stipulations and how this is tied to the warranty.)

Beyond this, let's say I finalize my order in November. What happens if Tesla comes out in December and states internet service will be $50/mo and you have to get internet service for the car to receive software updates and for it to receive warnings (whatever) and if you don't, your warranty may be voided?

I'd flip my lid if I had finalized.

What then?
Some of us are flipping our lids. I've been a great salesman for Tesla. Until now.
 
I signed the MVPA based in part on years of Tesla rhetoric about how EVs are cheaper to maintain.

Although I agree with the notion that Tesla did promote the Model S as being cheaper to own and maintain, I don't think anyone should sign an agreement with anyone or any entity based on a philosophy or a mutual agreement or an expectation of common ground.

What Tesla should be held to is what is on paper at the time of execution. I don't practice contract law; nor do I claim to be an expert in it (so I'll give expert advice). Nevertheless, agreements were made without an announcement of the service plan, the internet connection package, and I am sure other things. I have little argument with Tesla for now announcing a service plan that costs money, but I do take issue with Tesla's requirement that it be purchased (in some fashion, Bonnie) and that in order to save the warranty, you must pay for this service which can be done only at a Tesla service store.

I think everyone has a claim there.
 
Uh, *I'M* planning to do all mechanical work on my Model S. I don't trust Barney Fife either. Doug's brake pad comment is exactly why I do things myself. Replacing rotors every time you replace the brake pads is ridiculous and shows that either Tesla knows nothing about fixing cars or is a blatant money grab (I think they do know how to work on cars so my vote is for the latter). There is a published minimum rotor thickness so as long as the rotor is not at or below the minimum you can keep using it.

Also, the only reason the motor and PEM need maintenance in the Roadster is because they are air-cooled. As I posted earlier I am fine w/ paying for Roadster service because there is actual work to be done and I can see the value of them pulling the parts and cleaning them, etc. But in Model S all that stuff is liquid-cooled. So as long as the coolant isn't leaking out there's nothing to do. At least I can't THINK of anything that would need to be done. If Tesla can tell me otherwise and explain the work they're doing to justify the price then I'll happily pay it. But so far it just sounds like they pulled a number out of their arses (or did a profit gap-analysis) and figured that since it was in line w/ ICE's in the same price range people would pay it because that's what they're used to paying on their current cars.

That being said, and as I posted earlier, not everyone is mechanically inclined or wants to spend an afternoon wrenching on their car. If that's you then buy Tesla's service and enjoy life. But it just doesn't add up for me.

I think their service plan obviously puts people skilled at taking care of their own cars at a disadvantage but my guess (only a guess) is that most of their Model S customers will not know how to or want to work on their own car other than maybe changing to winter tires for example. It would be nice if they could find a way to accommodate both groups. Maybe charge less for a battery check each year and have you sign something saying you've performed all other service as they say and take responsibility for that.
 
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George really lit up the thread, eh?

One thing I haven't seen discussed (but with over 200 posts perhaps I have missed it) is the "new features" comment which George added to the end of his post. Regardless of how silly the coverage for things like wiper blades and brake pads sounds, George is also saying that by purchasing a plan that you will be entitled to new features during the life of the plan (up to four years or 50k miles). That seems to be a HUGE value.

Like many posters, I don't think this car is going to need enough "maintenance" to justify much cost at all, but surely there will be new features developed for the Model S over the next few years. If we could move our cars forward to Version 2, 3, etc. for only a few hundred dollars per year then, for me at least, that would override every other consideration concerning George's post and the plans.

Then again, that promise might be, like the sustainable banana leaf decor touted so heavily on the website or the aerodynamic rims or the "options not available in the production model" for us Signature reservation holders, just more fantasy that never happens.
 
George really lit up the thread, eh?

One thing I haven't seen discussed (but with over 200 posts perhaps I have missed it) is the "new features" comment which George added to the end of his post. Regardless of how silly the coverage for things like wiper blades and brake pads sounds, George is also saying that by purchasing a plan that you will be entitled to new features during the life of the plan (up to four years or 50k miles). That seems to be a HUGE value.

Like many posters, I don't think this car is going to need enough "maintenance" to justify much cost at all, but surely there will be new features developed for the Model S over the next few years. If we could move our cars forward to Version 2, 3, etc. for only a few hundred dollars per year then, for me at least, that would override every other consideration concerning George's post and the plans.

Then again, that promise might be, like the sustainable banana leaf decor touted so heavily on the website or the aerodynamic rims or the "options not available in the production model" for us Signature reservation holders, just more fantasy that never happens.

Fair point, they certainly could have opted to charge for the upgrades/updates


Evan, Via Tapatalk
 
No, the warranty is voided f you don't take care of the car by bringing it in for annual service. There is nothing anywhere that says you must buy a service plan. (FYI, I posted the separate warranty info for the vehicle vs. battery because you were quoting info from the battery spec page only, wondering if the vehicle was even covered. It would be great if you could update your original post, so that it doesn't further confuse new people to the party.)
Ah, I see. The first part seems to be confusion between the service plan, that is, the car has to be serviced every 12 months or 12,500 mi. by Tesla, and the payment schedule for it. The service plan is required to maintain the warranty for the first 4 years/50,000 miles, there are just two ways to pay for it, all in advance or yearly as the service is done.

I don't know what confusion there might be about what I said WRT the battery warranty. The battery warranty is stated to be 8 years, but no announcements have been made as to whether service plans to maintain that warranty after the first 4 years will be made available, what they will cost, and what happens to that warranty with or without such a plan. The rest of the car isn't warrantied past 4 years/50K miles in any case.

One possibility I suppose, is that Tesla will offer a general extended warranty for years 5 to 8 that will also be a required purchase to maintain the battery warranty. That might be pretty expensive, but so far nothing has been said at all about the out years.
 
I don't have a Roadster, but isn't the price the same or less? And covers more (cheaper Ranger visits and replaced consumables)? I guess I'm not all that upset because I'd been expecting something not too far off from the Roadster's requirements.
 
Larry you and I agree 100% on the reality, we are just 180 degrees on the remedy. I believe early adopters that are essential in creating the success of a company should be rewarded, not penalized.

So you agree with me regarding the reality of the significant risks that Tesla faces, but reject the premise that Tesla needs to take a conservative approach to avoid fatal missteps? Would it really be rewarding the early adopters if Tesla didn't proceed cautiously and went the way of Delorean and Tucker? From my perspective buying a $100,000+ Signature Model S and balking at the buying the $475/year service plan is like buying an expensive house in a flood plane and balking at buying flood insurance.

I'm interested in what you would consider the remedy. Would a $300/year service plan just for Signature reservation holders be a sufficient reward for you?

Larry
 
Exactly. That's the illegal part. I'm glad to see that the actual Warranty text reads differently---for Tesla's sake. I was going to prepay the service in any case.

They won't. George apparently misspoke, based on the actual wording of the warranty. As per the law, as long as the service gets done, the warranty isn't voided. You don't have to do it at Tesla.

As you say while it is true that you don't have to have the maintenance performed by Tesla, you do have to have proper maintenance performed. However, as a practical common sense matter, at this stage of the game it might be a bit foolhardy to risk the wellbeing of an expensive car and its warranty by doing it yourself or relying on others. Is that why you plan on buying the Tesla service plan?

Larry
 
Tesla just needs to be forthright and release maintenance manuals so that customers are not forced to take their car in to Tesla for service. Why is having a choice a bad thing?

Soon there will be Toyota technicians who are Tesla certified. Does this qualify as a Tesla Certified Mechanic?