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Was considering a panamera. Test drove p85+ today...

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by RainmakerJL, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. RainmakerJL

    RainmakerJL Member

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    Test drove the p85+ today... Really like the tesla a lot. Questions abound. How many miles should I expect on a set of tires? Do the fronts and backs wear equally? How is it in stop and go traffic with the creep/regenerative breaking (I commute to Manhattan daily). How much charge will I get at a supercharger in 20 mins.. I was already in the market to buy in this range.. Panamera vs Tesla p85+.... Any thoughts or advice?
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Tire life depends on the tires, the alignment, maintaining tire pressure, and the amount of fun you have. The rear tires do most of the work, so they will most likely wear quicker than the front.

    Stop and go traffic is a breeze in the Model S. It's so much more an extension of your body than any other car.

    Supercharging is really only for trips. Normally you just charge at home where charging time--meaning the time you have to wait--is practically zero. Superchargers taper off as the battery becomes full, so the actual amount you get depends on what the charge level was when you started. Best case is about 50% in 20 minutes.
     
  3. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Member

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    TexEx in 3... 2... 1...
     
  4. RainmakerJL

    RainmakerJL Member

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    I travel to Toronto from New york a lot in our mini-van was hoping to find a way to do it in the tesla but if we are only getting 150 miles in 20 minutes. that is 3 stops... thats a bit crazy... i am assuming the 50% in 20 minutes is if you are near empty right? what if you already are at half way? Also, how is it in the winter with winter tires?
     
  5. GaryREM

    GaryREM Member

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    I think at this point, you don't have SuperChargers in place to support a New York to Toronto run. You need to wait until the ones in NY state are in place. Then you can see how many stops and where. Also, no one said you had to stop charging after 20 minutes. And you should be starting out on a full charge.

    To really calculate this, you need to find out where you're going to be recharging.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Let's say below 50%. It's the 80% to 100% which is very slow.

    Toronto to NYC is about 500 miles (800 km). In winter during very bad conditions, you'll get 180 miles (290 km) with no problems. In better conditions you'll get over 200--you don't want to drive on the last three electrons in the same way that you don't want to drive on the last three ounces of fuel. It's about a 7.5 hour drive, so two pit stops and a lunch stop are pretty normal. You won't really be stopped any longer than in an old fashioned car. (Unlike my trips to Nebraska where there aren't any Superchargers so I charge at RV parks.) My take is that a 20-30 minute stop every 150 miles will contribute more to highway safety than just about anything else.

    The posts from last winter indicating that the Model S is fine in winter when equipped with four proper studless winter tires such as Nokian R2, Michelin X Ice, Bridgestone Blizzak, etc. You'll really want to get a set of 19" wheels and tires for this because the very low profile 21" tires and wheels are sensitive to potholes and don't have real winter tires available anyway. The lower the profile, the worse the winter traction because the contact area doesn't conform to the irregular surfaces found in winter driving. The Model S has traction control and vehicle stability control, both of which do wonders in slippery conditions.
     
  7. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    500 miles is probably 2 stops, depending on where they're located. Start out full, go ~200 miles, recharge and go ~150, repeat one more time. Call it 1 hour of charging, 8 hours of driving. However, that will very much depend on where the SCs are. In the midst of winter, add another 30 minutes of charging to account for needing more range with cold weather.
     
  8. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Sorry late to this one.

    Have owned three 911's and the P85+ blows them away period.

    Tires, well the tires on the + are much sportier than Pan--and hold the car to the ground like cement.

    The Pan is nice, but the torque and drive of + are really no comparison if you ask me. I've driven all Panamera , and nothing (maybe Turbo) comes close--and that's a BIG maybe.

    There are plenty of ex-Porsche owners here, and most are in P+.

    And trust me--TRUST ME, you will get more looks in a P+ than ANY Panamera.

    Get the P+--recommendation of a (ex) Porsche guy.
     
  9. RainmakerJL

    RainmakerJL Member

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    So we test drove today and my wife said that while we were on the interstate a guy pulled up beside us and stared as long as he could keep up (not long).

    I thinking my test drive the car was limited to 80mph. i don't know for sure but i hit 80 and stayed at 80 (for a second i thought it was KMS because it got there so fast and i am canadian).... Is that possible?

    how long do your back tires las t and how long do the front?
     
  10. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Yes demo cars are limited to 80. Can do 130'ish.

    Tires can vary as you know--probably 7500'ish miles.

    But if you are interested in Porsche or P+ you will want the best tires, and so wear shouldn't matter if you can afford it.
     
  11. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    It was likely limited to 80 MPH, not KMH. Drove the Panamera and really liked it, but the back seat was a little too claustrophobic and the cent console a little high and busy with all of the buttons. That being said, I did like the way it drove. Then I drove the Tesla and LOVED the way it drove. Easy decision for me.
     
  12. RainmakerJL

    RainmakerJL Member

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    Test drive was in NY so it was definitely MPH... i am just saying as a canadian who is custom to getting to 80KM/H quickly, when i saw 80 that quickly it just was a little muscle memory until i turned to the sales person and said... did i just get to 80mph? She nicely said, yes.. thats 80 mph... btw. Someone was saying that there was a 70AMP charging station in both albany and syracuse at a best western. how long does charging take at a 70 amp station? is it similar to a home charging station?
     
  13. Duckjybe

    Duckjybe S P232

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    I have over 20,000 km on my 21" continental tires and still have lots of life in them and they are wearing evenly...and I floor it at every light! So much fun!!!!!
     
  14. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    70-amp chargers are the next best thing to a full-power Tesla HPWC (80-amp). They'll charge around 56 mph (90 kph). Not Supercharger quick by any means, but still nicer than most public chargers *cough*chargepoint*cough*.

    Note: You must have twin chargers installed in your Model S to charge with greater than 40 Amps. The stations above will still work with a single charger, albeit at a slower rate.
     
  15. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    Take a look at the Supercharger map. Looks to me like they'll have Superchargers between Toronto and NYC sometime next year. May not be until the end of the year, but if you're planning to keep the car for a while, you should be able to take advantage of these in the not too distant future.

    Caveat for the following: I confess I have a serious Tesla bias. But I confess that the one car that really makes no sense to me, I mean no sense, for someone who might be in the market for a Model S, is the Panamera. I've driven one, and been driven in one, and every time I see one on the road I can only think: "Tesla wannabe." Seriously, I look at the Panamera and wonder why would anyone ever buy that car over a Model S? The Model S is so far superior in almost every way, and then you add the cost of premium fuel over the Panamera's lifetime, and the economics become a no brainer too.

    But again, I admit I'm seriously biased in favor of the Model S. So while I really hope you decide to buy the MS, if you do opt for the Panamera, I'd be curious why. As others have said before, on an 8 hour drive, you're probably stopping for a total of an hour and a half tops for charging. Seems totally reasonable for me for those times you're making a longer roadtrip.
     
  16. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    TCO on tires also depends on whether you get Plus or not.
     
  17. Vger

    Vger Active Member

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    Adjusting to road-tripping with a Model S and SuperChargers is really easy. Just pad your schedule a little bit, and plan to eat healthier than fast food. If you are not a workaholic, talk to your wife. If you are a workaholic, write 15 emails while you charge. The time often disappears really fast. Remember, your are not standing there in the cold holding onto a freezing pump handle, you are sitting in a climate-controlled cabin, with a great sound system, very comfy seats, and fabulous sound insulation.

    I have done 10's of 1,000 of kms road-tripping in the ten months we have had the car, and loved all of it.

    Just do it!
     
  18. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    Yeah, don't get hung up on the charging thing. You shouldn't just add the time that it takes to charge onto your typical trip time. If you eat and use the restroom (things you'd need to do anyway) at the Superchargers then I think you'll find that charging adds very little extra to your travel time.

    That said it might take some extra time, so the next thing I'd do is figure out the net time, then consider cost of fuel for the Panamera to do that trip. Superchargers are free, so in dollars per hour, how much does that extra 20, 30, 60 mins (whatever you figure your net is) cost you if you do the trip in a Panamera? Then you can just make a time/money trade off decision.

    BTW, hopefully some day battery swapping will be an option. If you haven't seen this, you should check it out: Official Tesla battery swap demo - HD - YouTube
     
  19. RainmakerJL

    RainmakerJL Member

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    thanks for all the feedback. i have been staring at that supercharger map all week.. I am sure you all laugh about newbies like me worrying about charge stations etc... I totally get that once you know what you are dealing with you plan accordingly. We have two small kids and 2 small dogs so stopping for 20 minutes 2 or 3 times on that trip is pretty common and going from 20 to 40 minutes or whatever is no big deal... it is a long drive so we do like to not dilly dally too much as it makes the drive a little longer.. perhaps in such a great car (vs mini-van) it wont feel so long ;). A couple of new questions... I am really looking at just the P85+ at this point. The kids seats in the back trunk. If i choose NOT to go with this option is the trunk a little bigger (i.e the space where the seats store is now freed up...)? For any of the "winter" folks like me in the north east... Do i just go right to the 19" tires front and back for the winter once we start to see snow on the ground and run those till march/april?
     
  20. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Good thread; thanks for starting it, Rainmaker. The rear-facing seats fold away into the footwell when not in use, leaving the rest of the cavernous (and flat) rear cargo area free. Then there's the front trunk (sometimes called the 'frunk', though Tesla now discourages the use of the term). Space is really not an issue; but if you do need the extra space the footwell provides, don't get the rear-facing seats. By the way, you can't add the rear-facing seats aftermarket: Tesla builds in additional structure during manufacturing, for passenger safety, when you order the rear-facing seat option.

    I'd put it on 19"s + snows before December 1: you don't want to ding the 21"s and you'll need the traction the snows provide in those northeast winters. Speaking of 21"s and tire life, read the last couple of pages of this thread: alignment (particularly rear toe) is crucial to tire life in the Model S.
     

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