Watch Autoline this week on Thursday

[phigment]

Wait.. wasn't this done a couple months ago? I vaguely remember somebody I thought was Munro comparing Tesla to Kia a while back.

Edit: yeah, back at the beginning of Feb: Munro Compares Tesla Model 3 Build Quality To A "Kia From The '90s" | CleanTechnica
Unless this is just an elaboration of what they did before.

 

[N5329K]

Wait.. wasn't this done a couple months ago? I vaguely remember somebody I thought was Munro comparing Tesla to Kia a while back.

Edit: yeah, back at the beginning of Feb: Munro Compares Tesla Model 3 Build Quality To A "Kia From The '90s" | CleanTechnica
Unless this is just an elaboration of what they did before.

It was teased a couple of months ago, with one-minute snippets on You Tube. That was focused on driving characteristics. Then they went into Deep Dive Mode and tore the car down to the frame.
This is a big summation, with lots of new details, though they're also saying there's more to come.
Has he torn apart anything somewhat comparable? Yes. That's what his company does. When they did the i3, they found the build quality exceptional....best in show...and the design kind of hideous. Don't know about the former, but I agree with the second conclusion.
Robin

 

[SMAlset]

okay he's a fan of the batteries big time (apx 30 min in). Said the 2170 batteries when they checked the differential between blocks found only a difference of .2mA. He said no one can balance batteries that close! "No one's ever gone that!" Again, great to hear and kudos to Dahl and our battery team. I think these guys are going to come away from this experience with a new outlook and appreciation on Tesla and the Model 3 when they are finished.

Okay he just said this is revolutionary technology. Anybody in the car industry that ignores it does it at there peril. Wow coming from him.

45 min in and the topic is now suspension. Puzzled by the wishbone arm and the iron piece in it, as well as how it was fabricated. Have their theories but apparently finding lots of instances where Tesla made parts that are different from what they were expecting to see and not sure of their thinking.

Back to a story on Munro and robotics at Ford. Is he the reason Ford abandoned robotics back then?

 

[Beagle]

Very interesting. There will be as many opinions of what was said as there are viewers. One opinion I have had for the last two years is that we are all Beta testers. However, if you can hold out for two years, and get a Model 3A, you will get a great car.

Weight is the enemy of cost, (for the company), and fuel economy, (for the owner). If the cost of fuel, (electricity) is $.04-.05 per mile, an extra 100 pounds is not going to cost us much.

By the way, make sure you watch to the end. They appear to quit at about the one hour mark, but they start talking again and get to some Tesla questions.

 

[juanmedina]

I actually like the review and it think the problem areas that he found can be easly fixed. Most of the problems according to him seems to come from the manufacturing assembly specially from untrained line workers.

 

[MP3Mike]

What time is this supposed to be on?!

You can watch it on YouTube now:

 

[MP3Mike]

Sorry, have to comment on certain things as I watch. Now at the part where Sandy is talking about robots (20 some minutes in). Blind, one arm and idiot--only does one thing. Comment makes me wonder if he's seen were robotics is these days. Let alone robotics with AI technology. But he has an old recognition pin with a diamond in it for his previous work with robotics. Sorry but Sandy is sounding like a dinosaur.

Yep, he certainly lost a lot of credibility with me. For mainly two reasons:

1. He said all robots are BOBs: Blind One-armed Builders. Really? Even if so you can put multiple "BOBs" together to have more arms. And has he not seen the demo Tesla did having two robots work in conjunction with a camera to have one pickup the base of a pen from a table that rotates while the other picked up the filler inserted into the base the other one was holding and then pickup the other end of the pen and screw it on? That sort of disproves the "BOB" idea. Maybe he should update his skills.
   
   
2. He said that they had no idea what the "silver wiskers" were connecting the cells in the battery pack. But thought they were contactors. Umm, really? You are analyzing and pricing parts and you think those are contactors? They are fusable links. And it is widely known that Tesla uses them in all of there battery pack construction.

Here is a video of the demo:

However, it was nice to see some of the insides of a Model 3 battery pack!

 

[SMAlset]

Focusing now on the aluminum and steel body and how heavy it is (about 50 min in). He can't imagine why given all cars in this class weigh much less. Saying how it's the most expensive body as a result in this class car. (Me--Thinking the answer is safety such as in crumple zones and stability while driving and that ride and handling that Munro loves so much). When asked why it's that way, the answer is "it's bizzare". He admits to being pretty stumped and clueless despite doing this for all these years.

McElroy says he thinks Tesla rushed the body design through and didn't get the minimum mass with the maximum strength.

Munro says the body styling of the car is beautiful and found the BMW i3 hideous. The Bolt looks like all the other inexpensive cars out there. Says however this Model 3 looks magnificant (his words) and looks like a scaled down Model S. Okay this was really good. Says he thinks maybe someone who never designed a body before got involved (shade there Franz ). This is apparently in context of it being built so stong and heavy.

Wrapping up show. Didn't get to a lot of viewer questions on the Model 3. Think he said his report is $70,000 for the complete set, sections can be purchased separately. When asked about doing reports on sectioning the body think he said not enough interest to make it worth their time. Did mention some outfit in Italy and others are buying a report on the circuit boards.

Just heard him say (apx 1 hr in) Tesla should get rid of the back end of the car and just do it in fiberglass...what? Eliminate the weight, the welding, the rivets...I think I'm glad Tesla is building this car.

 

[SMAlset]

So the show ends about an hour in but continues off camera so to speak. More Tesla discussion. Not sure how much time I have to recap (dinner) but Munro says they scrap the parts afterwards. Rebuilding would have too much liability and their would be a fight among their cusotmers over things like the circuit boards.

He reiterates that the circuit boards are what's going to kick Detroit's ass.

Got asked if any Detroit mfgrs were going to buy their report and he said 1. The last one on the planet he would have thought. Rest are from Germany, china, Taiwan, Japan. Said he doesn't have a NDA yet but And believe I understood him correctly but Panasonic is one of their potential buyers.

They take a few calls from viewers. First one is on automation at Tesla, second one guy has a Model 3 on order and wants feedback on where fit and finish lies comparing to a,few cars he throws out names of. Sandy still says Kia in the 90s. However it is brought up by McElroy that not all cars have the issue, whereas they concede it's consistency in fit and finish they don't have. Monro talks about how tolerance levels get set. Discussion moves on to the guy who just left Cadillac and their falling sales. They get back to Tesla and talk about the rework parts issue. I think the last issue they talk about is synchronous assembly lines without buffers and battery assembly.

 

[bthienthai]

I've worked with old farts like these before, and I'm telling you, they're the most change resistant people i've ever known. They're used to their way of doing things, so anything that is different is considered wrong.
It's ironic that he was quoting sun zhu that anyone who pounds their chest is going to lose. But a few minutes out, he was pounding chest himself claiming he's been doing this for God knows how long. I stopped watching right there.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Well, after watching it for a few minutes they're already off to an annoying start with the comment about not being able to drive their car if the power's out for two days.

 

[seattlite2004]

My take on the vid.....revolutuonary battery, skateboard, control boards; build, assembly not that great.

 

[SMAlset]

One thing Munro mentioned and this goes to training, he said they pulled apart a door panel and found really expensive, high quality sound dampening material inside. It has a lining on it on one side. One door was properly installed (forgot if lining was suppose to be facing the exterior or not) but the opposite side door had the insulation installed in the same direction as the other door where it should have been flipped if you get what he's saying. He attributes that to training.

 

[gtmotor]

It's interesting to see Munro and Associates getting so much press time.

I've personally worked with Sandy for years. He's a good engineer, very detailed, and a straight shooter. As others have picked up, he's a little old school at times

 

[AZRI11]

Panasonic potential buyer of report. You know that Panasonic would love to build modules for German car makers.

 

[voip-ninja]

I've worked with old farts like these before, and I'm telling you, they're the most change resistant people i've ever known. They're used to their way of doing things, so anything that is different is considered wrong.
It's ironic that he was quoting sun zhu that anyone who pounds their chest is going to lose. But a few minutes out, he was pounding chest himself claiming he's been doing this for God knows how long. I stopped watching right there.

He has more knowledge of cars and their manufacture in one fingernail than most engineers have in their whole body.

I must wonder if Musk’s comments on tolerances and manufacturing needing to become so good that if a customer thinks they measure a panal gap outside of spec their tape measure is wrong is because he got an early look at this video.

I am suddenly not upset about waiting longer and letting Tesla train their hundreds of new hires and improve assembly further.

 

[TLej]

I actually thought it was good, and it would be wrong to discount his take on the assembly concerns just because he’s “old-school”. Tesla is still new to the car game, and probably could learn some lessons about assembly. At one point Munro talks about GM doing finite-element analysis on the Bolt to find ways to reduce material from the structure; did Tesla have the budget, time, and expertise to do the same? The good thing I thought was that Tesla has the difficult stuff nailed - Munro was effusive in his praise of the technology side. The manufacturing side can be improved over time and as workers get more familiar with building the cars. The tech side is harder to iterate your way to competency on, and it’s the side he says the rest of the (American) car-builders are ignoring. I liked his candor at 1hr 9 minutes in - “this kind of stuff is going to kick their (Detroit’s) ass...”.

Overall I found it very interesting and balanced, and the two guys in glasses were total knobs that contributed nothing of value. Thanks for posting!

 

[SageBrush]

Elon has talked in the past about reducing the wiring in an EV. Now that I have seen all the cables on a wall in a collection in the video, I can well understand why.

As for the criticism leveled at Tesla, I'm sure there is some merit. I also am not concerned. Tesla will continue to improve in those areas rapidly, are already better than the Model S which is already pretty good, and most importantly, outstanding in the areas that matter to me.

I made it through about half of the video before the snark of the other people annoyed me. What was Sandy's take on the motor ?

 

[TT97]

I just watched the video. Contrary to my first impression of the previous videos, I thought overall Munro was very impartial. He was critical of the build and finish of the car and thought some parts were over-engineered (but that is what is he paid to do), however, he was extremely impressed with the batteries, circuitry, suspensions and driving characteristics.

For the circuitry, he compared the level equal to military equipment (I personally was thinking space rockets - may BFRs). He thought the batteries were head and shoulder over LG and Samsung and they tested the individual 2170s and followed virtually no variance difference between each battery.

What I did realize was the three hosts seemed more biased and their questions to Munro had very negative tones - especially the kid to the right. His first question was how does Tesla get so much right with the circuit board, the way it drives, the way it feels but can't get the doors to close.

 

[TT97]

Munro also thinks Tesla tried to do too much with the robots but Elon beat him to that one.