Water ingress into Powerwall+ inverter in garage

[kairojya]

Has anyone else had water ingress into their inverter(s) via conduit coming from your roof (solar)? It’s been raining here a lot and I can see water coming into my inverter from the top port. On the opposite side of the wall outside, the conduit 90s up to my roof. Note that my Powerwalls are inside my enclosed garage.

I’m still awaiting PTO and already working with my project advisor to hopefully have the local team redo this same conduit run before I noticed this particular issue. I’ve sent pictures to my PA. Regardless, I’d like to get some input from the community to see if others have experienced this. I understand these systems are designed to be mounted outdoors, like my Backup Gateway 2 is. And I see the drain holes in this particular unit.

My install photos: Post Your Tesla Solar Layout

 

[holeydonut]

Any chance you can get a picture of the other side of the wall on your 3rd pic (the 90 degree bend before the conduit goes up to your roof?)

I'm curious if it just one long conduit with a mandrel bend that goes through your wall, or if they used some other J-Box or Gutter.

Edit, nevermind, I see you linked your outdoor photos in a previous thread. Is there a lot of water in that 90 degree enclosure? I guess if there's lots of possible standing water + live wire around... maybe you don't actually want to poke around this...

PS, what the heck does the red button do? Is that a remote disconnecting means? Seems awfully tiny to act as an immediate disconnect for the Powerwall itself.

 

[kairojya]

Any chance you can get a picture of the other side of the wall on your 3rd pic (the 90 degree bend before the conduit goes up to your roof?)

I'm curious if it just one long conduit with a mandrel bend that goes through your wall, or if they used some other J-Box or Gutter.

Edit, nevermind, I see you linked your outdoor photos in a previous thread. Is there a lot of water in that 90 degree enclosure? I guess if there's lots of possible standing water + live wire around... maybe you don't actually want to poke around this...

PS, what the heck does the red button do? Is that a remote disconnecting means? Seems awfully tiny to act as an immediate disconnect for the Powerwall itself.

I thought about opening that 90 (J box?) on each side but figured I’d defer to Tesla to deal with it.

I was told by the Powerall install crew that the red switch above my Powerwalls is a new RSD switch that Tesla is voluntarily installing, as they hope to sway some policy change in the future to allow for this simpler install. I guess as opposed to the larger AC disconnect they installed for me outside. I’ve seen other install pictures where they mounted this RSD switch outside even when Powerwalls are in a garage like mine.

 

[holeydonut]

I thought about opening that 90 (J box?) on each side but figured I’d defer to Tesla to deal with it.

I was told by the Powerall install crew that the red switch above my Powerwalls is a new RSD switch that Tesla is voluntarily installing, as they hope to sway some policy change in the future to allow for this simpler install. I guess as opposed to the larger AC disconnect they installed for me outside. I’ve seen other install pictures where they mounted this RSD switch outside even when Powerwalls are in a garage like mine.

Yeah hopefully Tesla sends someone out to take a look soon.

The problem about putting a RSD right above your ESS is that if there ever was a fire with your ESS necessitating pushing the RSD... it will be in the fire zone and you won't want to get near it hah. I believe @Vines is a fan of putting RSD's, but California code interpretations kind of makes them non-starters

 

[jjrandorin]

Edit, nevermind, I see you linked your outdoor photos in a previous thread. Is there a lot of water in that 90 degree enclosure? I guess if there's lots of possible standing water + live wire around... maybe you don't actually want to poke around this...

I was curious at the pics, so went looking for them here. For OP (so they dont have to repost) and for anyone else interested in the outdoor pics, they can be found in post by OP here:

Post Your Tesla Solar Layout

Initially I thought it was just that top left corner that gets shade after about 6pm because of the foliage on the two maple trees that are in front of the house and off to the side, but I just walked out and took this pic - everything is shaded. Not sure how effective it would be with this...

teslamotorsclub.com

OP I dont have an answer, except to state that this seems like something that would need to be addressed "asap" since in general, electronics dont like water, and electricity and water are generally not something that we want to see in the same space.

 

[wwhitney]

Hopefully the horizontal EMT segment through the wall is not sloped with the garage side low. The exterior LB should have a drain hole drilled in the bottom. (NEC 225.22) And the horizontal EMT segment is required to be air sealed (NEC 225.27), eg using Duct Seal, which could also work somewhat as a water seal.

If anyone objects to drilling the LB (which is allowed), an alternative would be to replace it with a type TB condulet with a conduit drain/breather on the bottom port. That would probably require a short extension on the exterior riser, as the horizontal entry on a type TB condulet is in the middle, rather than at one end.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[55783f8]

I have never had water ingress into mine. Isn't there a rubber seal? Did yours fail?

 

[holeydonut]

Hopefully the horizontal EMT segment through the wall is not sloped with the garage side low. The exterior LB should have a drain hole drilled in the bottom. (NEC 225.22) And the horizontal EMT segment is required to be air sealed (NEC 225.27), eg using Duct Seal, which could also work somewhat as a water seal.

If anyone objects to drilling the LB (which is allowed), an alternative would be to replace it with a type TB condulet with a conduit drain/breather on the bottom port. That would probably require a short extension on the exterior riser, as the horizontal entry on a type TB condulet is in the middle, rather than at one end.

Cheers, Wayne

Not saying you're wrong (since you're like right 101% of the time)... but is NEC 225 supposed to be in the conversation when inspectors and homeowners look through their PV+ESS system?

I checked my exterior conduit, and it's definitely not NEC 225 for drainage since there is no opening or vent at the lowest level of the conduit. And I'd wager most people on this forum wouldn't see their exterior wiring conduit LB's with the correct level/plumb orientations to support draining either.

Even if someone makes their shiny new PV+ESS conduit 100% compliant with NEC 225 by re-levelling the conduit/raceways, drills a hefty hole for drainage, etc it just seems like NEC 225 is a wrinkle no Solar or ESS installer seems to care about at all and compliance for this drainage is never discussed for "normal" people anywhere (wwhitney's code-book memory is definitely not normal hah).

 

[kairojya]

Thanks for the details all. My project advisor already informed my local operations team of the problem, and gave me the number to contact for “maintenance“. I’ll post updates as I have them.

 

[wwhitney]

is NEC 225 supposed to be in the conversation when inspectors and homeowners look through their PV+ESS system?

Yes. NEC Article 225 is "Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders." It applies to all outside wiring (except services, that's Article 230). That's Electrician 101, so anyone doing Electrician 150, PV+ ESS, should be familiar with Article 225.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[holeydonut]

Yes. NEC Article 225 is "Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders." It applies to all outside wiring. That's Electrician 101, so anyone doing Electrician 150, PV+ ESS, should be familiar with Article 225.

Cheers, Wayne

Man now I'm curious if more people on TMC can go outside and look at their exterior conduit runs and LB's haha.

Sunrun doesn't employ electricians full time on the build ... they just have people who they pay to do the installs and plans, but no licensed buy is walking around managing all the work the whole time. The guy who installed my PWs was a trainee, but the guy who finished the MSP work was a licensed electrician. However he was on site for all of like 30 minutes.

The licensed guy left after checking out the main work on the PWs but before everything was finished so he wouldn't have been there to look at the LBs. And I'm 99% sure he didn't walk around with a level to measure the plumbness of the conduits or see how the water would pool drain from this stuff.

BTW some colleges offer Math 002 since 101 is too hard for some

Advising/Math Placement

mathematics.ku.edu

 

[BGbreeder]

Hopefully the horizontal EMT segment through the wall is not sloped with the garage side low. The exterior LB should have a drain hole drilled in the bottom. (NEC 225.22) And the horizontal EMT segment is required to be air sealed (NEC 225.27), eg using Duct Seal, which could also work somewhat as a water seal.

If anyone objects to drilling the LB (which is allowed), an alternative would be to replace it with a type TB condulet with a conduit drain/breather on the bottom port. That would probably require a short extension on the exterior riser, as the horizontal entry on a type TB condulet is in the middle, rather than at one end.

Cheers, Wayne

It never crossed my mind that there could be a conduit seal that wasn't waterproof. I am used to fire block foams and two part gels.

Thanks again for the information!

All the best,

BG

 

[wwhitney]

It never crossed my mind that there could be a conduit seal that wasn't waterproof. I am used to fire block foams and two part gels.

Duct seal is the standard for sealing inside of conduits, it's like modeling clay. Properly installed it should be an effective air barrier, but if conduit fills up with water due to not being able to drain, it may not hold back several feet of head.

You don't want to use arbitrary products to seal inside conduit around wires, something shown not to degrade the conductor insulation is required. That said, I think there are one or two part expanding foams that have been tested, but they are less reversible than Duct Seal.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[BGbreeder]

Duct seal is the standard for sealing inside of conduits, it's like modeling clay. Properly installed it should be an effective air barrier, but if conduit fills up with water due to not being able to drain, it may not hold back several feet of head.

You don't want to use arbitrary products to seal inside conduit around wires, something shown not to degrade the conductor insulation is required. That said, I think there are one or two part expanding foams that have been tested, but they are less reversible than Duct Seal.

Cheers, Wayne

Yes, I have only used products made to seal conduits out of exactly that concern about insulation degradation.

Someone once said to me that there were two kinds of conduit; those that have water in them and those that are going to have water in them.

Funny story, I have an issue with an electrical enclosure several hundred feet down hill from the pain panel. During the rainy season, the conduit is like a water hose, not wide open, but in the gpm range. I know that duct seal would never hold against that pressure. Now, thanks to you, that I know what a TB couplet is, I may install one there. Is there a code appropriate breather that could handle large volumes of water?

All the best,

BG

 

[wwhitney]

Is there a code appropriate breather that could handle large volumes of water?

I've never actually used the drains/breathers, but just try a search on "conduit drain fittings" or the like and you can find appropriate products. Ideally you'd be make the lowest point of the conduit run be below the downhill enclosure, with a drainage fitting there and a place for water to drain away.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jimm01]

I realize water can get into everything, I've seen it blow up a 30° pitch, but could part of the problem be what's at the top of the conduit?

 

[BGbreeder]

I realize water can get into everything, I've seen it blow up a 30° pitch, but could part of the problem be what's at the top of the conduit?

Yes, there is undoubtedly an issue up on the roof, if not also on the elbow and conduit outside, but there should have been steps taken to let incidental moisture drain off, (e.g. @wwhitney suggestion of a TB couplet) and for that moisture not to drain into the gateway (duct seal). Water and electricity don't play well together. (For me, this would be a "Run, don't walk" fix.)

All the best,

BG

 

[jimm01]

Yes, there is undoubtedly an issue up on the roof, if not also on the elbow and conduit outside, but there should have been steps taken to let incidental moisture drain off, (e.g. @wwhitney suggestion of a TB couplet) and for that moisture not to drain into the gateway (duct seal). Water and electricity don't play well together. (For me, this would be a "Run, don't walk" fix.)

All the best,

BG

Even if it dries out it doesn't aid in the reliability of the electronics. Whack it, kick it throw it in the water.

 

[holeydonut]

Yes, there is undoubtedly an issue up on the roof, if not also on the elbow and conduit outside, but there should have been steps taken to let incidental moisture drain off, (e.g. @wwhitney suggestion of a TB couplet) and for that moisture not to drain into the gateway (duct seal). Water and electricity don't play well together. (For me, this would be a "Run, don't walk" fix.)

All the best,

BG

I guess in the Bay Area we don't expect any more rain for like 12 years. So you might be replacing the Powerwalls and Gateway before any rain could get in them conduits.

I still want to know if other TMC users have inspected their PV+ESS external conduits to find drainage paths. My bet is only wwhitney's conduits have drain holes drilled in or some valve.

 

[wwhitney]

TB couplet

That must be an Autocorrect artifact, it's condulet or conduit body.

Cheers, Wayne