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We Are All Very Lucky

tstafford

Active Member
Jul 4, 2015
1,039
245
Nashville, TN
All you need to do to remind yourself of how fortunate we are to drive the MS is rent a car. Currently driving a rental Nissan Altima (which I honestly thought would be okay) and all I can think about is how superior the Tesla is. Our cars aren't just better, they are basically nothing like a regular car. Imagine going back to regular definition TV. That's how bad it would be to have someone take away my Tesla.

Cheers!
 

stevezzzz

R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR;YLR
Nov 13, 2009
6,100
122
Colorado
How many times have you walked away from the Altima with the engine still running and the doors unlocked? :biggrin:
 

electrish

I Sing the Body Electric
Nov 8, 2014
242
6
Ohio
My biggest problem when driving the other (ICE) cars in our family is the weird vibration and noises these cars make and I forgot about.
Every time I get into them I think that something must be wrong with the car!
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,631
7,799
Maine
All you need to do to remind yourself of how fortunate we are to drive the MS is rent a car. Currently driving a rental Nissan Altima (which I honestly thought would be okay) and all I can think about is how superior the Tesla is. Our cars aren't just better, they are basically nothing like a regular car. Imagine going back to regular definition TV. That's how bad it would be to have someone take away my Tesla.

Cheers!

I think that says less about Tesla and more about the potential for collision avoidance and other advanced driver assistance features to disrupt the rental market.

PS SDTV: Oh, nightmare. #FWP
 

Spidy

Active Member
Feb 7, 2015
1,364
1,035
EU
That's just a ridiculous comparison. A Nissan Altima is how much of the price of a Model S? 1/3? 1/4? Driving a Mercedes S-Class or Porsche you could say exactly the same...
 
Oct 9, 2015
22
4
Yulee, FL
Washed the MS on Saturday, woke up Sunday and noticed it was raining. Decided to drive the wife's Volt to church to keep the S clean. Never again. The Volt is a fine car that, after 40k miles, still does what it's advertised to do, but man talk about a step down.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
Currently driving a rental Nissan Altima (which I honestly thought would be okay) and all I can think about is how superior the Tesla is.

You're right, but honestly, those two cars are not even in the same class. An Altima would compare with things like a Hyundai Sonata, Chevy Malibu, Mazda6 and such, so for sure the Model S is going to appear superior. The Model S would compare with cars like the Porsche Panamera, BMW M5 and similar.

I often get the reverse of this when people ask me how I can "justify the cost difference" between my Model S and some far less expensive gasoline car. I try to explain that the Model S is really no more expensive than comparable cars in it's class, and you can't compare it to a Ford Taurus.

How many times have you walked away from the Altima with the engine still running and the doors unlocked? :biggrin:

This comes up a lot, but honestly I've never even come close to doing this in an ICE car. In fact, even after almost 3 years with my Model S, I still sometimes reach up towards where an ignition switch would be momentarily before getting out. What I do all the time in my wife's ICE is end up engaging the wipers when I'm trying to shift gears! So far, haven't ended up shifting gears in the Model S when I'm trying to turn on the wipers.
 

techmaven

Active Member
Feb 27, 2013
3,618
9,711
While my Model S was in the auto body shop, I had a series of rentals. The first was a Camaro, which made all sorts of cool noises if you are into that but was all bark and no bite (base V6). Visibility was very poor and since we often needed to transport 3-4, it was cumbersome and we switched it after just 3 days. I can see why teenagers have are such accident prone in this vehicle, as the outward visibility is so bad it's almost baiting an accident to happen plus normal teenage hormones driving what-is-in-their-minds a sports car. Switched for a 2015 Cadillac ATS which has a nice turbo 4, but a terrible transmission. Even with 8 gears, or maybe because of 8 gears combined with an algorithm that switched to the 8th gear as soon as possible, it was always having a problem with gear selection. Plus, the Cadillac Cue system seems to be designed by Microsoft rejects. Switched after 2 weeks to a 2016 BMW 328i. Again, a nice turbo 4, a better transmission than the Cadillac, but the iDrive system is a far cry from Tesla's touchscreen + Mercedes switchgear. The 328i also has start stop which was novel and the engine sounds were pretty nifty, again if you are into that kind of thing. It sounded so good actually for a turbo 4, that I wonder if it was synthetic.

After all of that, it is clear that the combination of turbo charged systems with 8+ gear automanual transmissions just won't deliver the kind of experience that a BEV can offer. Essentially in a 8 gear transmission, the top 3-4 gears are overdrive gears. And so if I'm doing 40 mph at a steady pace, the transmission is in 8th gear which means the engine is spinning at 1300-1400 rpm. Say I want to then do 50-60mph. Press the gas pedal down and it resists downshifting for a bit, causing hesitation. Since the engine is a turbo 4 and it's spinning at under 1,500, there is no power at all. Nothing happens. Then it realizes that I really do want to go, then it starts to downshift. But if I was impatient with the negotiation and press the gas pedal further down, it then hesitates more as it downshifts again. Then it finally hits the right gear and then 250 or 300+ hp come to bear all of a sudden. Boom, 55 mph, so I back off. But the transmission thinks that maybe I want to go again and instead of shifting to an overdrive gear, it then holds something like 4 gear and so its loud and vibrating at 4,000 rpm until it finally realizes that all I wanted is 55 mph, so then it shifts to 8th again. Argh. Not a good experience. Now, if I used the paddle shifters, remember I'm in 8th... it's 4 downshifts to hit 3rd gear to get a good passing gear. In a Tesla, any Tesla, it's just a simple press of the accelerator and you're hooked up. Doesn't matter what speed or what the car was doing just before. No hesitation and I can easily choose a little or a lot of acceleration or anything in between. It would be interesting to see if the torque fill of PHEVs helps that situation a lot. Otherwise, these vehicles will need to tap into their autopilot systems to know the speed limit, what I'm likely to want to travel relative to the speed limit and the traffic around me in order for the transmission to have a better clue as to what I want to do.

Further, the user interfaces are quite lacking in both the Cadillac and the BMW. The Cadillac had a touchscreen and touch console controls that were terrible. The iDrive was actually better, but still terrible as I scrolled and scrolled and scrolled. It also never guessed properly, I'm always presented with overview menus and stuff tucked between this menu or that menu where the menus seem to be really close in functionality. It's not that menus themselves are bad, it's having too many that are too similar. I have older Infiniti and Mercedes systems, so I can't pass judgement on them in a 2015/2016 context, although I prefer the analog instrument cluster in the Mercedes over the Audi's and BMW's I've driven. Even with the Model S 7.0 issues, it's a far better interface and far less distracting to use.

Start stop in the BMW was interesting. It reinforces how awful it is to have the engine running. It is also disconcerting at times when it isn't available so it doesn't turn off. Other times, it turns off so aggressively that it's a pain... for example, pulling up to a light where people are slowly compressing in... so it's stop, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 10 feet, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 5 ft, engine off. Then, if the climate system is running for a while and the light takes a bit, it turns the engine back on since the battery is small. So it's a bit disconcerting. There isn't enough juice to start the engine and keep the windshield wipers running.
 

forumman83

Member
Jun 12, 2015
90
21
Ottawa, Ontario
Start stop in the BMW was interesting. It reinforces how awful it is to have the engine running. It is also disconcerting at times when it isn't available so it doesn't turn off. Other times, it turns off so aggressively that it's a pain... for example, pulling up to a light where people are slowly compressing in... so it's stop, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 10 feet, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 5 ft, engine off. Then, if the climate system is running for a while and the light takes a bit, it turns the engine back on since the battery is small. So it's a bit disconcerting. There isn't enough juice to start the engine and keep the windshield wipers running.

Sounds painful...
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,631
7,799
Maine
Start stop in the BMW was interesting. It reinforces how awful it is to have the engine running. It is also disconcerting at times when it isn't available so it doesn't turn off. Other times, it turns off so aggressively that it's a pain... for example, pulling up to a light where people are slowly compressing in... so it's stop, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 10 feet, engine off. Release the brake, stutter while the engine starts, move 5 ft, engine off. Then, if the climate system is running for a while and the light takes a bit, it turns the engine back on since the battery is small. So it's a bit disconcerting. There isn't enough juice to start the engine and keep the windshield wipers running.

Aside: only creep when you can move at least one car length. Otherwise it gets annoying like that.
 

rcarpen22

Member
Aug 1, 2014
332
176
MD
Start stop in the BMW was interesting.

We have one of these and I'll note a few things. First, the sound is synthetic. Second, I've noticed that the start/stop doesn't behave like it did initially. It's my wife's car and I don't drive it that much, but in the few months that we've had it, I've noticed that it no longer turns off at all (or very rarely) when I drive it, even at stoplights. Third, I don't mind the iDrive system at all. Granted, I haven't taken delivery of my MS yet, but the BMW is light years ahead of anything I've had before. Overall, I think the BMW is really nice and the wife loves it. Also, the 28i motor makes plenty of power and gets good mileage. The ZF is the best 8-speed I've encountered. Full disclosure though, I like cars in general, so not nearly as turned off by the noise and vibration of combustion engines as some. In fact, one of the things I liked better about the D cars is the whine from the front motor:) I can pretend I'm in a Tie Fighter!
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,217
7,010
Delaware
Actually, the Altima rental car I had a few weeks ago really amused me.

Did you notice how hard the CVT tries to pretend it is really a conventional automatic? Any time you get into the pedal, it starts shifting gears...

I was glad to get back to my Volt, though, let alone a Model S. :)
Walter
 

FreeOfPge

Member
May 12, 2013
440
110
CA
Haha, funny to see this post this morning. About to walk out of the door and drive the ol' Ford F150 right now, something that I have been regretting, dragging ass, and putting it off all morning. Sadly, it's been on my mind for the past couple weeks and today is the day that I have to drive it, it's just not feasible to carry 2000 lbs of wood pellets in a Model S... I'm off.
 

benf

Member
Oct 20, 2015
140
15
Yorba Linda, CA
Totally agree that we're lucky to be driving the Model S, but making these comparisons to economy cars is kind of ridiculous. I totally understand preferring a Model S to an M5 or S63 or RS6 or Panamera, and that's a fair BEV vs ICE comparison, but talking about Altima's and 328's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Either way, it's nice to be reminded of how good the car is and not take it for granted ;).
 

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