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We are... Reservation Holders

Discussion in 'Model X: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by n88, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. n88

    n88 Member

    Jan 12, 2015
    First, full disclosure: I entered a two year lease for a Ford Focus EV in Q4 2013 and reserved a MX at the same time (6xxx), thinking (based upon the information provided by TMC) that the MX would be either available (or objectively within the event horizon) when my lease ended in Q4 2015. I moved to Florida from New England and specifically bought a home that would be within 10 minutes of a Supercharger. As a recently retired educator, I am willing to commit a significant % of my net worth to invest in the TMC mission and help make it a reality. I also fully understand the uncertainties of scaling up production of such a complex product and understand delays happen. I only provide my story, since it probably reflects the reason(s) most of us are in this forum. That said...

    Given there are approximately 23,643+ production and 1,500 signature reservation holders amounting to approximately $170,000,000 (I sure hope my math is close!) in interest free deposits,
    We are... as a group, a very significant stakeholder in TMC.

    As such, I believe we are entitled to the same level of information as other stakeholders in TMC, namely the employees, the investors, Wall Street, etc.

    Elon has eloquently stated that he wants us to be "delighted" with the MX. Being delighted can only occur when reality (R) equals or exceeds expectations (E) or D=R>=E.
    Even a cursory review of the threads on this forum show(s) the level of expectations. We now only have to elevate the current reality. The only way to do that at this time, is through information.
    I suspect most of us need to make arrangements to make such a significant purchase, so advance planning is required. Apple customers may wait in line, but that's it. Model S didn't have this many people involved with so much money on deposit for so long. This is different.

    My goal here is to convince TMC that we are entitled to at least monthly updates with information that will make it smoother for both them and us when it does come time to start producing and delivering the much anticipated Model X. There's just way too much conjecture and not enough information... just check any thread.

    So... who out there knows someone? What pragmatic ideas can we pursue? Will someone at TMC do an AMA on Reddit once a month for Reservation Holders? ... or am I just getting anxious with Q4 2015 coming up quickly without much reliable information to work on?
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Feb 6, 2011
    Columbia River Gorge
    (small note - "TMC" = Tesla Motors Club (this forum) ... "TM" = Tesla Motors, which is probably what you mean.)
  3. pgiralt

    pgiralt Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2013
    Cary, NC
    If you're looking for all the information investors have access to, you can get all of it here:

    Tesla - Investors Overview

    You'll find all the financial statements as well as replays of all the quarterly conference calls that investors and analysts attend.

    I know this is not what you want to hear, but really the other people you mentioned (investors, Wall Street, etc...) don't know any more about the X than you or me.
  4. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

    Jan 23, 2013
    Sonoma, California
    I have mentioned this before, all we want is occasional updates. This would also help eliminate speculation and misinformation as we see on this forum. Tell us where you are at with the vehicle and give us a time line on what will happen in the next 6 months. We understand things might change and I think most of us are good with that.
  5. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Active Member

    Jul 24, 2013
    Marietta, GA
    We already receive the same level of information that investors and Wall Street does since Tesla is a publicly traded company. You might want to find out if you can extend your lease in case your Model X isn't ready in Q4 2015.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Should Apple give monthly updates on what features will be included in the iPhone 7?

    Speculation and misinformation are human nature and you aren't going to stop that. Even if Tesla provided updates there would be speculation on whether the timelines provided would end up being accurate.
  6. mspisars

    mspisars Member

    May 23, 2014
    Charlotte, NC
    I think you are wrong.

    When you invest in public company there are rules set out by law (an entire legal framework, if you will), for private companies it is whatever contract you negotiated before investing in addition to any legal backing you might have.

    When you put down a deposit for a Tesla, you are not guaranteed ANYTHING but the fact that you will have a chance to purchase a car - vaguely described - in (hopefully) the near future.

    You have no additional rights besides:
    - Wait for the car you put the deposit for.
    - Cancel your reservation and get your money back.

    Now, you can use your rights of free speech to ask for more info, but you cannot elevate yourself to the "same level as other stakeholders in TMC, namely the employees, the investors, Wall Street" just because you placed a deposit for a car that will be produced in the future!
  7. Nubo

    Nubo Test Mule

    Dec 13, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    Well, that is perhaps not a good comparison because Apple hasn't been sitting on millions of dollars of deposits for up to 3 years.

    They may be arguing from an ethical rather than legal framework. :smile:

    I do think the time is getting ripe to start engaging the reservation holders. Get them excited. Laws and ethics aside, it's just good business. And it's fun!
  8. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    Seattle, Planet Earth
    Alas, I think it may only just aim it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is not a linear problem as you portray, the other approach is to manage expectations, which needs to be kept as high as possible to drive reservations... and as low as possible to meet expectations. The cost of then changing expectations over time dE/dT is higher for decreases in expectation than increases, there is a payoff matrix of expectation setting that is a function of competition announcements, and there is a momentum factor where the decrease of rate of communications (second derivative) is seen as a signal itself. I'd suggest at the least you revise your model. :)

    We discussed this at dinner a few nights ago.
    It's hard to build products, for consumers, at high price points, with high end satisfaction, and high in-the-meantime market and engineering ambiguity and risk, with us as customers (informed, critical, detail-oriented, early adopting), in an irrational public trading market, and trying to change the energy paradigm of ground transportation for the planet in the long run. They have hired the best they can to juggle all these variables and balance happy customers, a healthy company, and product strategy.

    How they communicate with their constituents is part of that balance and given their track record I trust that it is OK. I would not assume that more information is owed or even optimal to help them achieve their mission. So I am at peace with what I know, respect the tough balancing act Tesla folks have to do, and try not to expect. (Much... Who am I kidding). But I try to force myself to let them be.
  9. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

    Jan 24, 2013
    Yes! Very succinct.

    The rest of your post is right on too.

    oh, did I mention I'm sick of waiting?
  10. rogbmw

    rogbmw Member

    Feb 10, 2012
    Central Florida
    As a Model S owner, an X reservation holder (booked the first day they were available) and Tesla stock holder, I fully understand the questions in this post. But, one has to realize that our society, with instant information and gratification, has a huge tendency to speculate and want the answer "now!". The TMC board, just as many others, conjectures and guesses many things that are just speculation. The Model X Beta has not even been publically released yet, so in truth we do not know exactly what the configuration of the X will be.

    I am on the board of directors of an international automobile club, and am president of another club chapter based in the US, and we constantly try to keep everyone informed - and it is challenging keeping speculation rumors doused. It is just the nature of the beast with message boards - many things are fact, and many are not. The challenge comes in everyone realizing what is what.

    I believe that Tesla is generally keeping us up to date with what they can release as pre-production goes along. I would rather them get it correct than release a vehicle where we all are "beta testers", especially at the price point we are looking at.

    It would be great to have a crystal ball, but I have not found one yet!
  11. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2012
    I believe the trend is going to be less information. Elon eluded to that in (I think) the 14Q2 ER when he said they'd 'hold their cards closer to their chest' going forward. Nobody knew AWD Model S was coming until the event party, though some guessed it because of Elon's tweets - point being, nobody knew it was coming when it came. Yesterday he was asked a question about which automotive CEO's he's talked with about partnering with Tesla and he flat out refused to answer, telling the media they couldn't be trusted not to twist the information. We have firsthand evidence that many employees at Tesla also don't have information and if they do, they are under strict instructions to keep their mouths shut.

    So, seems the information pipeline is being slowed down, not sped up.
  12. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2012
    I was coming to this thread to post the same anecdote. I actually think that--by and large--this is a good thing. Many of the communication errors that have bitten Tesla in the rear (not all, but many!) have been self-inflicted to varying degrees. By this I mean that what they ultimately deliver tends to be at worst satisfactory and generally much better than that, but they have long had a tendency to promise too much, too early. The early Supercharger rollout, the X release date, the Roadster upgrade, various software upgrades... The list is quite long. I very much would prefer them to give us only what they are very confident is accurate information. We'll have fewer tidbits to endlessly speculate on, but also much less complaining after dates area inevitably missed.

    That said, the fact that the media hangs on and spins every word out of Musk's mouth is a separate issue, and a regrettable one.
  13. rage_777

    Feb 14, 2013
    If Tesla Motors were to give Model X reservation holders information before the general public, and that information was used to buy or sell Tesla Motors stock, that is considered insider trading. That is just like if you worked at a publicly traded company, the CEO can't release the numbers to employees before the general public.
  14. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Mar 24, 2013
    I'm going to enter this discussion for two specific, very separate reasons, based on what I have highlighted from the original post.

    First is that there is no and there can be no divulgence of information to TM vehicle owners/would-be owners as suggested by the latter two snippets other than what is publicly available elsewhere, full stop;


    Second is that although it is too late for you, others perusing this thread and considering both having a Tesla and acquiring a new home, a far more appropriate geographical determination for a home is NOT to be "within ten minutes" of a Supercharger; on the contrary, you want to have as many as possible in a ring-grid approximately 100-150 miles away. THAT is the sweet spot for Supercharger locations.

    Full disclosure: TM decided to emplace a Supercharger in Wickenburg just after we bought a second home there. All that means is I have to be the de facto janitor and Welcome Committee for it. Thanks a bunch, TM :wink: Now: go build some around Alaska.:tongue:
  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Feb 6, 2011
    Columbia River Gorge
    Priceless. :)

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