We are still a long way from the convenience of gas stations

[ElectricIAC]

Clearly flying is not getting any better. Fortunately, as flying declines, EVs are getting more convenient.
It is no surprise that something new is not as well supported as something old. Clearly, one will need to learn.
For day-to-day usage, when one can charge at home, clearly nothing is as convenient as an EV. Some road trips are more convenient, but, in some circumstances, they are less convenient or even nearly impossible (driving to Northern Canada or Alaska).
I've done many long EV road trips, even in sub-zero temperatures. If you have an EV charger at your hotels, it is generally more convenient than an ICE since. at Superchargers, you get out, plug in, then go inside until it is done charging, then go out to your warm car - easy.
If you suggest EVs must be better than any other transportation form under all conditions, you're expecting way too much. Cars (gas or EV), boats (power, nuke, or sail), airplanes (fixed wing, helicopter, or airship, space ships, bicycles, climbing ropes -- all have their places.

We’ve largely eschewed flying due to the inconveniences associated.

 

[kayak1]

Did you leave your house with a full charge? How far was it from your family's house to the airport? Were there no charging options at the airport - not even a standard wall outlet?

I just did a 160 mile one-way trip through an EV charging desert to a location that only had 15A charging. I was there for a few days and was able to charge the car more than enough to return home. Many (most?) airport parking garages or parking lots have plugs these days. I think a little more research before departing would have helped you.

120V charging at the airport should be the norm. The two airports I fly from now have charging options. I can even take my leaf to the airport without worry (takes most of a charge one way).

 

[kayak1]

I don't think you properly read my initial post of what happened on this trip.

I don't understand what charging at the airport has to do with it?

Your 160 mile trip doesn't sound like my trip. Did you leave your car in one place the entire several days? Airport parking doesn't provide an option of plugging in and leaving it. No, there are NO 120V outlets that I've seen. This is an outdoor, uncovered lot.

I appreciate your advice, but it is based on a total lack of understanding of the problem. Not only have I done my research into available parking and charging having used this airport many times, I have written to the airport asking about adding 120V outlets as they would be perfect for long term parking.

What airport were you going to that had zero changing options?

 

[Earl]

120V charging at the airport should be the norm. The two airports I fly from now have charging options. I can even take my leaf to the airport without worry (takes most of a charge one way).

I concur. I've used 120v outlets at airports many times and they work great since you'll be parked for more than a day most times. They can be hard to find though.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

We'll know we've caught up with the "convenience" of gas stations, once we start getting asked for "bus fare" or "gas money" by panhandlers at a Supercharger

...and those "sausage" things that they keep on the heated rollers all day long. Are they really for human consumption?

 

[Allx]

It’s true that being able to enter a destination or next SC the day before would be great for those days where there's no other option than a cold start . Similar thing happened to me the other day , leaving a family visit at -15F plugged into a 15A. Supercharger was too close ironically enough (not enough time to wan the battery) and next one 118miles out so 22kwh top up took 59min on a v3 SC. I set the car for scheduled departure so not sure what else I could have done. Maybe repeated launches ? Would mess with my safety score I suppose
Not a story I like repeating to ICE friends as it’s exceptional and not representative of the usual experience in summer but its something to keep in mind .

 

[SalisburySam]

Can't get my wife into an EV until 400+ mile range. She regularly makes solo 400 mile drive to see the kids who live in another town and does not feel safe at night at supercharger stations.

Likely you’ll want 500+ range for such a trip if that trip will be in cold weather and you’d like heat in the car. Perhaps a Lucid?

 

[Allx]

Likely you’ll want 500+ range for such a trip if that trip will be in cold weather and you’d like heat in the car. Perhaps a Lucid?

Oh boy , now you started something ;-)

Kidding aside , 400-450wh/mi is pretty common at -10 or -15F so it might be more like 700 or 800mi unless winter range gets a lot better. Better off using a SC and hire staff for protection considering the lucid pricing .

 

[Earl]

It’s true that being able to enter a destination or next SC the day before would be great for those days where there's no other option than a cold start . Similar thing happened to me the other day , leaving a family visit at -15F plugged into a 15A. Supercharger was too close ironically enough (not enough time to wan the battery) and next one 118miles out so 22kwh top up took 59min on a v3 SC. I set the car for scheduled departure so not sure what else I could have done. Maybe repeated launches ? Would mess with my safety score I suppose
Not a story I like repeating to ICE friends as it’s exceptional and not representative of the usual experience in summer but its something to keep in mind .

I assume the 15A was only 120V which is not really enough to keep the battery warm and charge it in such extreme cold. This just shows that the best option for EVs is Level 2 (probably 30 amps or more) charging overnight. Superchargers are really sub-optimal except for quick fill while actually driving long distances. This is especially important in extreme cold weather.
Note, however, that one will often run in to problems with ICE when parked at -15F overnight unless you take special precautions as well. The recommended procedures for ICE in such conditions are to:
- fill gas tank before parking long time, to avoid possibility of water vapor freezing in the tank overnight
- use gas-tank antifreeze additive (especially if you can't fill up tank first)
- plug car in to engine block heater - Oh the irony!
- be sure to have a new starter battery (remember that, with the ICE, you might not have even gotten started in that cold temperature and AAA would have taken an hour just to give you a jump start. I've never heard of an EV not going in cold weather) - More irony!
With such a cold battery, repeated launches may have been fairly futile as well since they, too, would have been power limited.

 

[Merrill]

When I was in the army stationed in Colorado Springs I lived off post and had an old Volvo which I parked outside, no garage. Being from California I was clueless about low temps and the first morning I went out to start it all I got was a click click. A neighbor said do you have an engine heater, and I said what is that!

 

[Allx]

I assume the 15A was only 120V which is not really enough to keep the battery warm and charge it in such extreme cold. This just shows that the best option for EVs is Level 2 (probably 30 amps or more) charging overnight. Superchargers are really sub-optimal except for quick fill while actually driving long distances. This is especially important in extreme cold weather.
Note, however, that one will often run in to problems with ICE when parked at -15F overnight unless you take special precautions as well. The recommended procedures for ICE in such conditions are to:
- fill gas tank before parking long time, to avoid possibility of water vapor freezing in the tank overnight
- use gas-tank antifreeze additive (especially if you can't fill up tank first)
- plug car in to engine block heater - Oh the irony!
- be sure to have a new starter battery (remember that, with the ICE, you might not have even gotten started in that cold temperature and AAA would have taken an hour just to give you a jump start. I've never heard of an EV not going in cold weather) - More irony!
With such a cold battery, repeated launches may have been fairly futile as well since they, too, would have been power limited.

Yeah , not saying to go ICE. Just that sometimes , you don’t have a choice to plug on L2 . Would be nice if we could make the choice to condition the battery more aggressively (particularly if next day’s route has a SC in range) . We could choose to do this even at the cost of range if we know we need to SC early in the trip.In my case, I was setting out on a 450 mi trip so shaving that hour to 15 min would have been great. Still not enough to make me switch to ICE , that’s just bananas but it would have been pretty cool.
I’m with you on the irony of plugging an ICE in but honestly I haven’t seen anybody do that in 20 yrs aside from way up north at -40C. EVs will start better at those temps for sure.

 

[SalisburySam]

Giving credit where due, the last couple of app software updates have really helped me significantly getting my Model 3 ready to drive. Scheduling departure times pre-heats the cabin and seats, pre-heats the battery so I have regenerative braking immediately (I usually charge to 80%), and the app makes this incredibly easy to set up and cancel as desired. With all the grief about the app and the V11 UI, this is one area that Tesla has gotten right, at least for me. Huge convenience.

 

[Allx]

Giving credit where due, the last couple of app software updates have really helped me significantly getting my Model 3 ready to drive. Scheduling departure times pre-heats the cabin and seats, pre-heats the battery so I have regenerative braking immediately (I usually charge to 80%), and the app makes this incredibly easy to set up and cancel as desired. With all the grief about the app and the V11 UI, this is one area that Tesla has gotten right, at least for me. Huge convenience.

Good point , it’s better than it was . I’ll give it another try next visit , maybe next update will be even better (that departure was on v11). My suspicion is conditioning for driving isn’t the same as conditioning for SC. Sounds like an easy adjustment but might not be frequent enough of a complaint to register on their radar - yet.

 

[Earl]

Just that sometimes , you don’t have a choice to plug on L2

True but that's improving all the time. My folks are always nice enough to unplug their Tesla when I'm arriving so I can plug in immediately upon arrival. They also let me plug in the night I leave so my car and battery are warm and the battery is full.

condition the battery more aggressively

I'm not sure if the pre-SC conditioning has enough oomph to condition enough to do much in only a few minutes. My experience is that it starts conditioning about 45 min to an hour before arriving at the SC when ambient temperatures are extremely cold. Perhaps if more people were crazy enough to live in those cold areas, they'd beef it up a bit.

at -40C

Are you sure that you really meant Celsius?

conditioning for driving isn’t the same as conditioning for SC.

You're right that it won't condition for optimal SC but it will allow probably 50 to 100 KW SuperCharging.
I don't know, however, if 120V/15A at -15F ambient will warm it up much though.

 

[SalisburySam]

Are you sure that you really meant Celsius?

Does it matter? Isn't -40ºC and -40ºF the same temperature?

 

[Earl]

Does it matter? Isn't -40ºC and -40ºF the same temperature?

Bingo! Gold star for Salisbury Sam!!

 

[ElectricIAC]

Does it matter? Isn't -40ºC and -40ºF the same temperature?

Both are cold AF.

 

[Allx]

True but that's improving all the time. My folks are always nice enough to unplug their Tesla

That’s certainly the way to do it. Not an option for me yet till I upgrade their breaker box . Thats actually the underlying point i was making , sometimes as much as we plan , there’s no choice but having an unplugged (or under plugged ) night in cold weather and heading to a charger in AM. Even if I had charged at the SC the night before , I really needed close to 100% to get to the next charger.

I'm not sure if the pre-SC conditioning has enough oomph to condition enough to do much in only a few minutes.

You’re probably right but I don’t mean minutes , I meant overnight actually . Basically , set the departure time as we do now but specify the SC you’re going to upon departure. That way the car can take an hour or two to prep if it needs to , the priority would be to get a decent charge rate as you set out on a long trip. Not a concern everyday but road trips in cold climate would be better for it.

You're right that it won't condition for optimal SC but it will allow probably 50 to 100 KW SuperCharging..

22kwh in 59min is what I got with standard preconditioning and 20 min drive to the SC. Again, not the end of the world and NOT a reason to switch to ICE but would have been nice to save 30-45min, that’s all.

 

[SalisburySam]

Both are cold AF.

Indeed But equally so.

 

[Allx]

Both are cold AF.

Yes and yes