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We need a Battery identification and Re-balancing sticky

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Cal1, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. Cal1

    Cal1 Member

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    This type of data should be easy and quick to find. I've read a lot of info buried in numerous threads but nothing with clear instructions e.g. set the max charge range all the way to the right, make sure it has time to sit for x number of hours after it reaches max charge. Don't plug in again until it reaches XX%. And most important how many times am I suppose to do this? Every day for a week? How many max charges before you call Tesla and complain. It should also contain battery identification location and explanation as to differences.

    What we really need a true ownership FAQ with the general " what to expect once you get one" questions answered. I know we are doing Tesla's work for them but someone has to do it! Their busy changing the automotive world and just don't have time for trivial stuff like this. :wink:

    As long as I'm on this "what we really need as a community" theme, we should have a section explaining general systems on our car e.g. what the 12v battery does, vs what the 400 volt system takes care of. So many things just left out there that on ANY other car is clearly addressed by the manufacturer or is older technology that most have some level of understanding.
     
  2. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I don't know that it needs to be a sticky.

    Part of that level of detail is that it defeats Tesla's purpose in making electric vehicles simple. The car is designed so that it can be plugged in whenever possible, and I wouldn't want to take away from that.

    Before my battery had to be replaced, I had 20,000 miles on a rev A pack. Rebalancing gave me a mere 3 miles back. Except for the enthusiasts, is it really worth giving such complex details? I don't fault anyone from wanting to drain every last electron out of their cars if that's what they want, but is that right for general readership here? I don't want to give the impression that this is a hugely complicated affair.

    Perhaps a FAQ format, like the charging one that I maintain? Something that starts out with "the vehicle is designed to be driven and plugged in whenever possible, if you're looking to stretch things a bit further here are some details..." ?
     
  3. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    Considering how much negativity is being directed at Tesla from owners complaining about their cars loosing range, I think this is a good idea. If owners want or need the extra range or simply just want to see higher numbers, we can help direct them to what they need to do.

    On the flip side, I was on the lookout for another used Telsa. Hoping to find an owner upset at the non-real loss of range and looking to get rid of their car cheap because of it. No luck yet.
     
  4. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

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    I hold a viewpoint much like FlasherZ (but with far less knowledge and experience LOL!!). Sometimes, when the mood hits me, I suddenly want all sorts of detailed information on how everything works, or how some subsystem works. But, I'm retired now, so I lie down until that urge passes. No seriously, although I'm enthusiastic about Tesla I can't be considered an enthusiast, and I would prefer the battery management system was designed such that it did not need me to agonize over every minute and amp for "best use". And I think it is ("just set to 80% and plug it in").

    Being a less-than-two-months-ownership owner, I'm still in the stage of figuring out where my pain-point is for worrying about such things. I'm forced to think about it somewhat since I live in a shared-charger condo so can't just monopolize the charger by always plugging in.

    The other thing about producing more detailed information about the systems and subsystems: the more work it will be for <someone> to update said information when Tesla changes/improves the technology.

    All that said, I really appreciate the incredible detailed knowledge that so many people share here. Unfortunately I forget those details within a day or two! :confused: But it's ok, the car is fabulous.
     
  5. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    I'm all for making it simple for the average buyer. But... not everyone is the average buyer. If there's something I could be doing to extend the life of the battery I'd do it, even if it's more complicated than "leave plugged in all the time." The problem right now is that we don't really know what that is.

    So I keep my SOC around 50% (~100-120 rated miles on an 85) and hope for the best. I've gotta try to balance on a Supercharger here pretty soon.
     
  6. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I understand the desire to squeeze every ounce out of it, and so I'm not opposed to publishing the information, but am merely suggesting that it be written for the enthusiasts, perhaps as a FAQ, with the prevailing message being that Tesla handles it for 95% of its customers. Perhaps someone will take it upon herself/himself to write up one.
     
  7. Cal1

    Cal1 Member

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    This is all fine but I've read some owners they have 250-270 mile range each morning. I've got 12k miles and only get 227-230 on the std 90% charge. Not clear what you should be getting initially (new car) nor after you have a few thousand miles. All of these vague "degradation" posts do nothing to let anyone know what is normal. Oh yea I'm not buying this "it's complicated" answer. I've got to believe there was an production release battery range tolerance that they needed to meet to pass QC. I've got to believe Tesla did studies to determine range degradation. Why is this so hard? When I "supercharge" to 100% I only get 257 miles. Is this normal for my mileage? No one, including the local service center can give me a straight answer. Again why is this so hard? I only had 4k when I bought it (demo) and full range charge has not changed. I did do one attempt at balancing. Charged to 100% (only got 257), and then let to drop to 20% before plugging in again. No change in my range the next day. Am I suppose to do this re-balancing thing multiple times?

    EVERYONE will care when they try to sell and the buyer says your battery doesn't range charge high enough!

    This can be compared to an ice oil consumption issue. All manufacturers have a new car oil consumption tolerance that the shop uses to drive repairs. If you bought a BMW 2000 M5 (E60 engines) you could expect a 1 qt/ 800 miles loss. While most owners complained (lots of forum postings) this was normal. Of course there were lots of contribution factors but the bottom line is that you had something to go by.

    So who was it that started the rebalancing idea in the first place? Perhaps the entire idea should be ignored if it was not Tesla's idea in the first place.
     
  8. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    Balancing discussion has been going on since the early roadster days. Balancing is real. Ignore it if you want to. You will not see a change in range calc during the first rang charge.
     
  9. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    No owners get 250-270 miles of range at the standard 90% setting. If they say they have 250-270 miles each morning, it's because they're range charging.

    It's difficult for me to offer a comparison with what my car charged to on a range charge when it was new, because my car shipped with 3.x software and the algorithms have changed several times since then - but it went up to 268 miles. That said, just before this recent pack replacement I was getting 257-258 miles on a range charge at 20k miles; my 90% charge was approx. 228-229.

    Tesla's goal is to make this simpler than the ICE experience: plug it in, it charges. I agree that if you're trying to squeeze the last ounce out of your battery, then there are some things you can do. Benefits follow the law of diminishing returns for some of these, though.

    I've talked to several owners in the St. Louis area who have followed the rebalancing instructions offered here - very few gain more than 5 miles back. Is it worth it? I don't know -- how far do you drive on a daily basis will probably determine that. Perhaps I'll wait until the week I sell it before I rebalance my pack.

    While engineering is in my blood, there are things I don't want to have to worry about. Tesla does a good job of this, IMO.
     
  10. Cal1

    Cal1 Member

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    Thank you so much! Sounds like we have the same issues all car and truck guys face, a little embellishment! Many truck guys lie... my truck gets 25mpg is the std one. Even though we all know that is close to impossible. Perhaps our is a range quote. Sounds like my typical daily charge is in line. EPA gas estimates are exactly that and I typically have gotten a little better but it gave someone a base line for comparison. And your comment about the changing algorithms had been addressed in may posts but I think I'm seeing the real impact. Thanks for making that finally clear. Again I think there should be a FAQ explaining this type of info in one location. The NSX Prime went to a WIKI for this type of info. Anyway one place to find stuff would be nice.

    I agree we shouldn't have to worry about this but as GLHS272 said "Balancing discussion has been going on since the early roadster days. Balancing is real. Ignore it if you want to. You will not see a change in range calc during the first rang charge." Not sure what to believe. This will work itself out over time.
     
  11. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    This!

    I pay attention to all these threads. But don't even fret about my 215 miles in the morning on a 90% charge. I don't even check the number at the end of charge, just at 6:30 in the morning.

    If I start being impacted by these numbers, I'll start caring. Until then I just plug in whenever I am in my garage, and leave the charge slider at 90% unless I need the 100% the next morning.
     
  12. Kraken

    Kraken Member

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    I really agree with el supreme. I'm testing balancing now out of curiosity. You can follow along with m posts in the other thread, but here is a synopsis:
    My 90% charge is 220. It started at 240, or at least 235.
    I was getting 263 rang, now I get 252.
    all your numbers sound typical, and I wouldn't be worried. I currently have 14k miles on the car.
    Keep in mind most degradation happens early in the life of the car. Or at least that's what a lot of people have said.
     

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