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We want some Model 3 Leaks, renders, sketches !

I think Elon should troll Fisker and bring out a Karma onstage with Tesla badging. He can then say "April Fools! It is April 1st in Australia, right?'

As someone already mentioned, Musk should come out with a sketchpad and an awful crayon drawing of the Model 3 and say, "Here it is everybody, the new Model 3!"
Wait for laughter and applause, then roll the damn prototype on stage.

That's Steve Jobs level trolling and I could only hope that's what happens. Elon must read news sites and our blog right? :wink:
 

sub

Active Member
May 24, 2013
1,480
2,480
Sonora California
If you were to make a chart about Battery Physics, Power Density and Energy Density would be your X & Y axis. As the Power Density goes up, Energy Density goes down. It does pose the possibility that the battery may have more energy and less power than the current Model S Batteries have (or vice versa); if it does have more energy and less power, then we will see a battery with a longer driving range.

However, due to all of the things that we don't know with certainty (like the vehicle weight, CD, CDA, tires, etc) there is no way for any of us to make an educated assessment of the Model 3's actual Power.

Since we all like to compare stuff...
BMW 7 (base): 3.0L - 315 hp - 330 torque - 23 combined mpg - 21.1gal - 0-60 4.4 seconds
BMW 3 (base): 2.0L - 180 hp - 200 torque - 28 combined mpg - 15.8gal - 0-60 5.2 seconds

If Tesla mimics BMW's model comparisons...
Model S (base): 382 hp - 325 torque - 230 miles range - 70 KWH - 0-60 5.5 seconds
Model 3 (base): 218 hp - 197 torque - 280 miles range - 52 KWH - 0-60 6.5 seconds

This is all pure speculation, obviously, and it is just an apples to apples comparison. Check my math, please.

Not sure where you got your BMW data? I'm sure different sources have different numbers, I just looked them up out of curiosity and I have a 2011 335d. The site I'm looking at says 328 at 6+ seconds, the 335d I have is listed at 5.7. However, the 335d is a lot like an EV, it has massive torque down low so it comes off the line quick and feels faster, takes a 335i or M3 a while to reel it back in. My i3 is in the 7 second range, I need another driver to do a side by side comparison (my wife would never participate).

I want a Model 3 with a 0-60 in the 4 second range and 300 miles. I'm willing to pay 50-60k for it, I'll be reserving 2 on March 31st in person.
 
Not sure where you got your BMW data?

Yea, I used bmwusa.com, lol. Why anyone would use a non-official source is confusing to me. HOWEVER, I did use CarAndDriver.com for the 0-60 times, as I could not find them on BMW's official website (not sure if I just overlooked them, or what).

As I mentioned, I was providing the base numbers for the BMW 3 series, which is a "320i Sedan." Same case for the 7 series, which means a "740i Sedan."
 

Red Sage

The Cybernetic Samurai
Jul 6, 2014
3,033
2,198
Los Angeles CA
I saw this image posted on LinkedIn. Looks legitimate and has noticeable differences from Model S - front bumper. Could this be it?
View attachment 114387
No. Please go back to Post #829, where this has already been explained. On second thought? Here, just look at it:
Here are a couple of comparative drawings I did to show the differences between the Model S Prototypes and the Production version:

View attachment 113992

View attachment 113993



I wonder why they went with something different in the end. It looks a bit "Jaguar-y" so maybe thats why they changed the hood design.
I believe it was mainly the Real World intruding upon design. Intake of air for the cooling systems along with setting up crumple zones for crash tests influenced the final engineering to good effect. And let's face it, the car still looks very much like a relative of Jaguar, Aston-Martin, and Maserati vehicles anyway.



I read this as the 3 won't be able to draw power from its batteries as fast as the S/X, but will store more kwh/pound then then S/X.
Possibly, but I rather disagree.

This makes sense, giving more range/$ and providing a performance differentiation between the 3 and the more expensive S/X.
There is no significant improvement in range in an electric vehicle that comes from limiting ultimate performance potential. This isn't the same as with a gas guzzling ICE mobile. Consider the lineup for the 2016 Dodge Challenger as an example. The 305 HP version of the car has a 426 mile range with an 18.5 gallon fuel tank. The 705 HP version has a 296 mile range, per the EPA, using the same fuel capacity. That's a loss of 30.5% in range by going to the more powerful setup. But when you compare the Model S 70 to the Model S P90D the more powerful car has an 8.1% improvement in range. Even if you adjust to the same relative capacity, the more powerful car only 'loses' 18.9% range compared to the less powerful one. And that advantage is lessened further when comparing the top-of-the-line dual motor AWD to the lowest level of the 'D' cars. Hence, why the Model S 70D is the current efficiency champion in the Tesla Motors lineup. What matters is how you drive, not the potential beneath your right foot.



If you were to make a chart about Battery Physics, Power Density and Energy Density would be your X & Y axis. As the Power Density goes up, Energy Density goes down. It does pose the possibility that the battery may have more energy and less power than the current Model S Batteries have (or vice versa); if it does have more energy and less power, then we will see a battery with a longer driving range.
Once again, I disagree. Less power does not equate to greater range. At a particular rate of consumption, a minimal amount of energy must be expended to travel a given distance, at a precise speed. Whether that is done in five seconds or 35 seconds, the same amount of work is done.

However, due to all of the things that we don't know with certainty (like the vehicle weight, CD, CDA, tires, etc) there is no way for any of us to make an educated assessment of the Model 3's actual Power.

Since we all like to compare stuff...

If Tesla mimics BMW's model comparisons...
Years ago now, Elon Musk clarified that the baseline minimum target was the BMW 3-Series. He pointed out that the BMW 325i/328i had been the perennial 'bread and butter' seller for the company. He emphasized that Tesla Motors must offer vehicles that were compelling, otherwise no one would want to buy them. Their cars could not be simply 'just as good' as competitors. They had to be BETTER. He believes in enforcing this principle across the entire Tesla Motors vehicle lineup.

The Chevrolet BOLT has already been announced to have 200 HP, and a 60 kWh battery pack. It is highly unlikely that Tesla Model ≡ will debut with less, to compete head-to-head with the relatively lethargic 180 HP BMW 320i. It is instead much more likely that the Model ≡ will match or surpass the BMW 335i/340i in base specifications. Even the base version of the Infiniti Q50 starts at over 300 HP.

Tesla Motors does not believe in applying the types of compromises to electric vehicles that traditional automobile manufacturers use. That is: Limiting top speed to 85 MPH or less... Limiting Performance to 7-to-8 seconds 0-60 MPH... Limiting range to significantly less than 100 miles... Limiting charging speed so as to make it as inconvenient as possible... Limiting the physical design so as to not be appealing to the public at large.

Expect the base Model ≡ to have no less than a 60 kWh battery pack paired with a 300+ HP, 300+ lb-ft torque motor and an EPA rated range of no less than 225-to-250 miles.
 

1208

Active Member
Dec 22, 2014
1,376
956
UK
Nissan-TeRRA-fuel-cell-electric.jpg
 

aronth5

Long Time Follower
Supporting Member
May 8, 2010
3,481
3,274
Boston Suburb
Can we please stick to vehicles that at least have a remote chance of looking something like what the Model 3 may be?

Agree and also lets leave out the Model S clones that are just 20% smaller than the S but otherwise look exactly the same.
Did anyone expect the Model X to look like the Model S just 20% larger?
 

S3XY

Active Member
Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2015
2,202
7,544
Buffalo, NY
Thats a good point - assuming they are at alpha stage right now, would the just be one car or would there be more?
Maybe a couple?
I would think there has to be at least two. What would they do if the only one they made had some type of failure that incapacitated it? I guess they could put it behind a curtain so they could open to reveal it and not have it actually drive but that would be very disappointing.
 

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