Weight shift and handling? M3LR

[metroplex]

The other day I came across a traffic circle / roundabout that I'm familiar with but haven't driven the Tesla through until now. I normally take it at 35-45 mph in any of my other cars (4300 lb. Taurus SHO, 4100 lb. Fusion Sport, 4900 lb. Explorer etc). It's not a static "donut" but more like a quick left followed by a quick right (to keep going straight).

It felt like the M3LR had a lot of excessive weight shifting around driving that roundabout. I have taken that same series of roundabouts with heavier or similar weight vehicles and none exhibited this same behavior and that Explorer has a very high CG. It felt like the M3LR chassis/suspension wasn't tuned right. Excessive weight shift. Didn't feel like excessive understeer, just a lot of weight transfer/shift. In comparison, my Fusion Sport has the electronic dampers and rides a lot smoother over bumpy roads but seems to handle corners better (SHO with non-electronic dampers was the same way). Has anyone else felt the same way about the M3LR?

 

[Zcd1]

The other day I came across a traffic circle / roundabout that I'm familiar with but haven't driven the Tesla through until now. I normally take it at 35-45 mph in any of my other cars (4300 lb. Taurus SHO, 4100 lb. Fusion Sport, 4900 lb. Explorer etc). It's not a static "donut" but more like a quick left followed by a quick right (to keep going straight).

It felt like the M3LR had a lot of excessive weight shifting around driving that roundabout. I have taken that same series of roundabouts with heavier or similar weight vehicles and none exhibited this same behavior and that Explorer has a very high CG. It felt like the M3LR chassis/suspension wasn't tuned right. Excessive weight shift. Didn't feel like excessive understeer, just a lot of weight transfer/shift. In comparison, my Fusion Sport has the electronic dampers and rides a lot smoother over bumpy roads but seems to handle corners better (SHO with non-electronic dampers was the same way). Has anyone else felt the same way about the M3LR?

I can't comment on the comparison with your Fords, but will say that the Model 3 feels as "planted" (or even more planted) in cornering to me as any other car I've owned.

That said, since yours is a LR, the first place I'd look would be at the tires. The OEM tires were chosen for range, not for handling, unlike the tires on your SHO or even Fusion Sport.

Check this for some additional perspective: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Compact Luxury Sedan Comparison

 

[metroplex]

I can't comment on the comparison with your Fords, but will say that the Model 3 feels as "planted" (or even more planted) in cornering to me as any other car I've owned.

That said, since yours is a LR, the first place I'd look would be at the tires. The OEM tires were chosen for range, not for handling, unlike the tires on your SHO or even Fusion Sport.

Check this for some additional perspective: Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Compact Luxury Sedan Comparison

Good point! The Michelin Primacy has never been my top choice of tire. The SHO came with Badyear RS-As one of the worst tires ever made (more of an all-season general tire, also generally used for Police interceptors) and the Explorer came with Michelin Latitude Tour HP (soccer mom crossover SUV tires). The Fusion Sport was the only one with "performance" all-seasons with Badyear F1 Asymmetric All-Seasons. I recently switched to Michelin Cross Climate 2's on the Fusion and they tend to slide on dry and wet pavement, often losing take-off traction on wet roads.

With the stock M3LR tires they weren't really sliding during the transition, it just felt like a lot of weight shift like they didn't tune the suspension properly other than for straight line commuting. For corner entry, the M3LR seems to feel fine and the brake regen helps settle the car quite a bit. No complaints there. But for that quick transition, it was almost like I had a rental V6 Challenger.

 

[Zcd1]

But for that quick transition, it was almost like I had a rental V6 Challenger.

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but even a Challenger Daytona or 392 won't hang with a Model 3 in handling, though...

Maybe you should have bought the Performance model instead?

 

[metroplex]

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but even a Challenger Daytona or 392 won't hang with a Model 3 in handling, though...

Maybe you should have bought the Performance model instead?

I can work around the sloppy handling on the M3LR and will need the 18" aero wheels/tires for our roads. Not a deal breaker,
Car and Driver only got 0.87g road holding with the M3LR. The better road holding on the M3P is more likely from the summer tires.

2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.

www.caranddriver.com

For the Fusion Sport, it was only 0.84g Tested: 2017 Ford Fusion Sport
But I'm talking about the noticeable weight shift during a quick transition. My Explorer didn't even feel this bad.

 

[GtiMart]

First thing I did when getting my M3LR was to replace the tires with the highest performance all season tires I could find. I therefore cannot comment on the MXM4s but the car handles pretty good to me, somewhat similar to my previous 2018 WRX. With that said, I don't often encounter quick directional transitions like what you explained but the car settles pretty well in a single hard turn situation.

 

[Zcd1]

I can work around the sloppy handling on the M3LR and will need the 18" aero wheels/tires for our roads.
Car and Driver only got 0.87g road holding with the M3LR. The better road holding on the M3P is more likely from the summer tires.

2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.

www.caranddriver.com

Right.

Motor Trend measured 0.90 G.

I drove my M3P through 3 Chicago and Michigan winters on 20" wheels/tires without issues.

Look, I'm sorry that you think your Model 3's handling is "sloppy", but there's zero objective support for that opinion. None of the cars you mention would stand a chance against the Model 3 in any test of handling or speed. The Model 3 might feel different than you're used to (duh - it's an electric car!) but in any case its capabilities are well documented.

I hope you come to terms with what you've purchased. If not, there's always the aftermarket or trading it for something else!

 

[metroplex]

First thing I did when getting my M3LR was to replace the tires with the highest performance all season tires I could find. I therefore cannot comment on the MXM4s but the car handles pretty good to me, somewhat similar to my previous 2018 WRX. With that said, I don't often encounter quick directional transitions like what you explained but the car settles pretty well in a single hard turn situation.

Yes that's my experience as well with the M3LR on stock MXM4s, single hard turn = it feels fine and the rear-biased weight distro seems to help. No complaints. It's the rapid transition at speed which makes the car feel punching above its weight class.

 

[metroplex]

Right.

Motor Trend measured 0.90 G.

I drove my M3P through 3 Chicago and Michigan winters on 20" wheels/tires without issues.

Look, I'm sorry that you think your Model 3's handling is "sloppy", but there's zero objective support for that opinion. None of the cars you mention would stand a chance against the Model 3 in any test of handling or speed. The Model 3 might feel different than you're used to (duh - it's an electric car!) but in any case its capabilities are well documented.

I hope you come to terms with what you've purchased. If not, there's always the aftermarket or trading it for something else!

Well, that road holding test isn't the same as my scenario. The key to getting a high figure on road holding is with sticky tires plain and simple. Car and Driver re-tested the Fusion Sport with summer tires and got 0.89g - no other suspension/chassis/tuning changes (0.84g with stock all-seasons).

Tested: 2017 Ford Fusion Sport with Performance Tires

Getting a grip.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Zcd1]

Yes that's my experience as well with the M3LR on stock MXM4s, single hard turn = it feels fine and the rear-biased weight distro seems to help. No complaints. It's the rapid transition at speed which makes the car feel punching above its weight class.

Which other car have you owned that had rear-biased weight distribution?

 

[GtiMart]

A good set of coilovers as some are running around here seems to make the car much better. That's on my "maybe" list for the future, mostly because of the cost otherwise it would already be done

 

[804son]

Replace the stock tires w/ some Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, You will definitely see a change in the handling. The MXM4s only work well for one thing (efficiency).

 

[Zcd1]

Which other car have you owned that had rear-biased weight distribution?

Taurus SHO, Fusion and Explorer all have +/-60+% of their weight on the front tires, so my guess is that you're accustomed to UNDERSTEER, and lots of it.

Model 3 will feel different and require a different driving style, especially in transitions.

 

[Thp3]

Well, that road holding test isn't the same as my scenario. The key to getting a high figure on road holding is with sticky tires plain and simple. Car and Driver re-tested the Fusion Sport with summer tires and got 0.89g - no other suspension/chassis/tuning changes (0.84g with stock all-seasons).

Tested: 2017 Ford Fusion Sport with Performance Tires

Getting a grip.

www.caranddriver.com

I have Summer(Michelin Pilot Sport 4) and Winter tires (Michelin XIce) in northern Michigan. In Detroit you should do well with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4.

I have those on my Model Y (Michelin PS4 all season).

The Summer tires are fun to drive, but in winter I want to be able to drive away from sliding cars so real winter tires are needed.

 

[tm1v2]

The other day I came across a traffic circle / roundabout that I'm familiar with but haven't driven the Tesla through until now. I normally take it at 35-45 mph in any of my other cars (4300 lb. Taurus SHO, 4100 lb. Fusion Sport, 4900 lb. Explorer etc). It's not a static "donut" but more like a quick left followed by a quick right (to keep going straight).

It felt like the M3LR had a lot of excessive weight shifting around driving that roundabout. I have taken that same series of roundabouts with heavier or similar weight vehicles and none exhibited this same behavior and that Explorer has a very high CG. It felt like the M3LR chassis/suspension wasn't tuned right. Excessive weight shift. Didn't feel like excessive understeer, just a lot of weight transfer/shift. In comparison, my Fusion Sport has the electronic dampers and rides a lot smoother over bumpy roads but seems to handle corners better (SHO with non-electronic dampers was the same way). Has anyone else felt the same way about the M3LR?

@metroplex The 2021+ Model 3 suspension (LR or P hardly matters) is a sloppy mess when pushed near its limits especially on bumpy, uneven roads. The cars I test drove felt that way, and my own M3P I bought felt the same. Word for word, what you described is what I felt too on stock suspension, even the M3P with performance tires.

As best I can tell it's the stock damping that is the root issue. You won't get far without upgrading the dampers. I went for the Redwood Motorsports "Performance Sport" Ohlins DFV coilovers based on experience testing a car with factory Ohlins DFV, and the difference is night-and-day. Handles amazing, and just feels better and better the harder I push it. Rides totally fine. Wife even likes how it drives as long as they're in a middle firmness setting. The MPP KW coilovers are popular too, I've no experience with them but I'm sure they're also a big upgrade over stock.

As others said the Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires that often come on non-performance Teslas are garbage for performance, that's absolutely true, but they're not the source of the poor body/weight control. That's the suspension's job!

 

[Lindenwood]

As @tm1v2 discussed, these vehicles are very under-damped from the factory. This is a combination of desiring a more compliment ride, and because it is frankly cheaper to build shocks with less damping to still last a while .

Driving hard on uneven roads, I literally gained a measured ~20% more capacity for lateral acceleration because the car remains that much more settled. (Specifically, I went from being able to only hold 53mph through a specific 270-degree turn, to being able to hold 58mph through the same turn).

What you describe—getting sloppy when tossing the car around (but not on corner entry)—sounds exactly like a damping problem first. Lots of other things will also help (Performance-oriented alignment, replacing bushings with bearings, stiffer coils, etc), but you can go with Comfort Adjustable Coilovers first and get most of the way there.

 

[MasterC17]

As the two members above mentioned, it sounds like you need a set of good coilovers!

 

[dfwatt]

I can work around the sloppy handling on the M3LR and will need the 18" aero wheels/tires for our roads. Not a deal breaker,
Car and Driver only got 0.87g road holding with the M3LR. The better road holding on the M3P is more likely from the summer tires.

2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.

www.caranddriver.com

For the Fusion Sport, it was only 0.84g Tested: 2017 Ford Fusion Sport
But I'm talking about the noticeable weight shift during a quick transition. My Explorer didn't even feel this bad.

You should drive a properly kitted out performance model 3. MPP sport coilovers, lighter forged Wheels and for god sakes get rid of those MXM4s tires. I think it would convince you that what you're seeing as intrinsic to the car is not. It's intrinsic to the very poor damper control and crappy tires.

 

[gearchruncher]

What @dfwatt said minus the forged wheels. You'll never notice wheel weight on this car. People go out and spend $4K on forged wheels when $3K of shocks and tires would have made 20X the difference.

 

[Zcd1]

People go out and spend $4K on forged wheels when $3K of shocks and tires would have made 20X the difference.

Not in looks! ;-)