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Welder outlet charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by GreenCanuck, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. GreenCanuck

    GreenCanuck New Member

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    One of the most readily available strong power sources is a welding shop plug. Does anyone know (a) why Tesla doesn't sell an adaptor or (b) how to solve the problem: I have shopped EVE adaptors and Conntek and am building a supply of pigtail and adaptor plugs that don't work.
    Is there some danger to using this approach that explains the discontinuation: in terms of speed of charging, if there is no Tesla PWC or supercharger, this has to be the fastest available, with 240V and 50A, so roughly 50km per hour if you have the dual charger.
    I have scoured the internet on this, without success. Welders use a Nema 16 50R female outlet. I can't find anything that gives me that male end and any kind of female that will bridge me back to the Model S.

    Seems such an obvious and widely available outlet that there should be an easier way to do this.


    Thanks,
    Green Canuck
     
  2. Kandiru

    Kandiru Member

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    My advice is to go on Shop Tesla and buy all adaptors available, Chademo included for the Nissan dealerships, put them in the UMC tote, you will thank yourself one day on the road.

    While there get a second UMC and a replacement wall connector organizer. Get a UMC bracket from one of the sellers here in the Classifieds, and mount that UMC in the garage.

    This way your travel cable will be pristine, you don't want to have a cracked cable leave you stranded on the road on a snowy day.

    Heck, I don't even own a Tesla yet, but I read here daily. I hope this is useful advice.
     
  3. perkiset

    perkiset ... this one goes to 11

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    There's a gentleman here in AZ (met him at a Tesla Enthusiasts event) that does it all the time. I don't know the details of your connector, but like Kandiru said, buy all the adapters if your concerned and you'll have a great kit for when on the road. I have all of them including CHAdeMO and feel pretty good if I'm stretching range.
     
  4. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Tesla initially offered a UMC 6-50 adapter but it has been discontinued. No one knows why. You might try calling around to the service centers to see if any have one left.
     
  5. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

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    Do you mean a 6-50 outlet? I've never seen a 16-50, in fact I'm not aware of a NEMA 16 at all. Assuming you mean 6-50, I've used this adapter a few times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is apparently an L16-50 connector. I've never actually seen it (my welder uses 6-50 and I've only seen L6-50 or 6-50), but if that is what you seek you might try the guys at NEMA Twist Lock Reference Chart
    However, L16-50 looks like a 480V format, so I'm not even sure that will work through a UMC.
     
  6. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    They did make one, I have it, it works well. It's one if the more popular adapters I have used.
     
  7. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Good information ... here is a handy chart.

    chart-2_grande.jpg
     
  8. brkaus

    brkaus Member

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    Don't welders have a short duty cycle so there are corners that can be cut in terms of wire size and still meet code?
     
  9. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker Beta Tester

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    Nice reference, but wouldn't a Miles Per Hour column be more useful than the Charge Time (hours) column? Wouldn't the hours of charge time vary if the car was a 60, 70, 85 or 90?
     
  10. Ampster

    Ampster Member

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    Either charge time or miles per hour depend on variables of pack size or driver efficiency.
     
  11. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    No, miles per hour does not depend on either of those factors. Since the watt hours per mile used to calculate the “rated miles” number is based on a fixed value, your driving efficiency has nothing to do with it. Tapering is the only thing that would affect that speed, but anything going through the UMC is so low power that it won’t taper the current until it’s up into the 99% full level of the battery.
     
  12. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Your actual miles per hour of charging will depend on driver efficiency, but RATED miles is a constant, based on the EPA test cycle.
     
  13. linkster

    linkster Member

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    Yup, and VERY good point!!

    Similarly, 90+% of range 14-50’s are wired with Romex 8-3 + grnd with a 2-pole 40A breaker for 40A max and 32A continuous.
     
  14. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    Oh, well that is true, but if you’re publishing a table of values, which one individual person’s driving style do you choose for the numbers to put in the table?
     
  15. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    The difference is that #8 is rated for the 40 amps and the circuit breaker protects it.

    Welder receptacles are another beast altogether. Code allows us to size a 6-50 with #12 wire and a 30 amp breaker if the intended welder is rated as such (duty cycle and current). So you could charge your car, set it to ~25-30A, and you wouldn't know it but that #12 wire would be getting pretty hot after 30 minutes. NEC limit is breaker size cannot be more than 2x the wire rating or current rating of the welder, whichever is less.
     
  16. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    You don't choose anyone's driving style. You base it on the EPA rated range, just as Tesla does on its charging website when explaining the various charging options.
     
  17. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    That’s what rated miles per hour is, and that’s what was originally suggested! It was about using the rated miles per hour in the charging table instead of just hours. You started criticizing using rated miles per hour in the table, because you said that varies so much per person. I was poking fun a bit, by sarcastically asking whose “mile per hour” rate should be used.
     
  18. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Here's an excellent write up on how to create all your own adapters, including 6-50 for the cost of parts (around $20 each).

    http://cosmacelf.net/Home%20Made%20Adapters.pdf


    I don't think it's good to advise people to go buy every possible thing for charging.

    You don't need to buy all the adapters from Tesla unless you know you're going to need them, it's kind-of a waste of money. The Chademo adapter is $450 -- again, it's good to have if you know you'll need it. I've done a dozen long road trips and needed a Chademo adapter once -- and I was able to borrow one for the weekend.

    A backup UMC is $650 and is not needed -- I travel ALL-THE-TIME with my single UMC. If you don't care about $650 then sure, buy a backup UMC... but by no means is it needed. If you're careful with these devices, they won't just "break".

    So if money is no object, sure, go hog wild and by all the adapters and backup UMC or HPWC you want. But you might end up never using them.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    Sorry there is some miscommunication here. I wasn't criticizing using rated miles at all. I never said rated miles vary per person. I specifically said rated miles does not vary per person, that it's based on the EPA test cycle. The range any individual gets varies, but rated miles does not.
     
  20. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    One reason for the 6-50 adapter in the early days was for customers that prewired for the HPWC before the HPWC's were shipping, and Model S's were being delivered. Because the pre-wire for the HPWC did not include a neutral, a 14-50 could not be used as a temporary outlet with the HPWC prewire. Tesla recommended using a 50 Amp breaker and a 6-50 outlet with the 6-50 adapter until HPWC's shipped.
     

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