Well, we got bidirectional in there after all?

[MentalNomad]

Apparently, bidirectional charging (V2G) capability is built into the car's chargers and wall chargers, and can perhaps be turned on via software update, just like the heated steering wheel they keep holding back.

Who knew!?!?


Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features - Electrek

 

[Jeff N]

Apparently, bidirectional charging (V2G) capability is built into the car's chargers and wall chargers, and can perhaps be turned on via software update...

Who knew!?!?

From 6 months ago:

https://electricrevs.com/2019/11/21/tesla-plans-to-innovate-ac-power-outlets-on-cybertruck/

What if Tesla could provide over 10,000 Watts of 120 and 240V power at multiple outlets at minimal added cost?

Marco Gaxiola thinks they can....
he worked at another company that did one of the early teardowns of a Tesla Model 3. As part of that effort, Gaxiola had access to the circuit boards taken from the Model 3’s Power Conversion System otherwise known as it’s built-in AC battery charger. Gaxiola believes this charger design is capable, from a latent hardware perspective, of operating bidirectionally even though it isn’t used that way today in the Model 3.....It could make a lot of sense for Tesla to re-use the Model 3’s battery charger in the Cybertruck and update the controller software to allow bidirectional use.

So, not quite breaking news but it is interesting and informed speculation.

The subsequent “million mile battery” developments do make this a potentially more interesting use case for true AC V2G in the future rather than as just dedicated power outlets on the Cybertruck or as a temporary-use “NEMA AC breakout box” charging cable adapter on the Model 3 and Model Y with the existing batteries but with updated charger controller software.

 

[JulienW]

Apparently, bidirectional charging (V2G) capability is built into the car's chargers and wall chargers, and can perhaps be turned on via software update, just like the heated steering wheel they keep holding back.

Who knew!?!?

....could be only from a certain build date. Also may be just a line/production change getting ready for a new battery and also will require it. Will likely have to wait until Battery Day for hard info.

Also the steering wheel doesn't contain heating elements.

 

[smatthew]

It's like your car was always bi, but never knew it....

 

[Rothgarr]

Also the steering wheel doesn't contain heating elements.

Literally my only main complaint about the car. I feel like I would rarely have to turn on the HVAC heater if only the steering wheel could heat up.

 

[SageBrush]

Literally my only main complaint about the car. I feel like I would rarely have to turn on the HVAC heater if only the steering wheel could heat up.

I bet a lot of people would be happy if they could upgrade just the steering wheel.

 

[Knightshade]

....could be only from a certain build date.

Could be- though the quote says it was one of the "early" teardowns, so sounds like it's always been there, or at least was added very early?

Personally I don't think I'd be interested in V2G for the current generations of batteries- maybe once the million mile ones are out it'd be worth giving up a bunch of life cycles of the car for it though.

 

[willow_hiller]

Could be- though the quote says it was one of the "early" teardowns, so sounds like it's always been there, or at least was added very early?

Personally I don't think I'd be interested in V2G for the current generations of batteries- maybe once the million mile ones are out it'd be worth giving up a bunch of life cycles of the car for it though.

From the Investor thread, the schematic attached to that Electrek article is dated August 26, 2018. I think this is definitely something that's been in most if not all production Model 3s:

 

[SergeyUser]

Assuming most people charge at home, how can this be helpful to the grid? I mean you can probably just stop charging if you want to coordinate grid load. But why would you want to return electricity from your car, sitting in your garage, at night? I don’t understand economics of that. And if there is no economics - no one will do that.

 

[JulienW]

Assuming most people charge at home, how can this be helpful to the grid? I mean you can probably just stop charging if you want to coordinate grid load. But why would you want to return electricity from your car, sitting in your garage, at night? I don’t understand economics of that. And if there is no economics - no one will do that.

Simple, charge at night when demand and kWh cost can be lower. Then feed the grid during peak/day when demand is higher, kWh cost higher and this reduces the need for peaker plants and pays you a profit.

 

[SergeyUser]

Simple, charge at night when demand and kWh cost can be lower. Then feed the grid during peak/day when demand is higher, kWh cost higher and this reduces the need for peaker plants and pays you a profit.

But I have to connect it to a charger during the day, and by that I will clog the charger to someone who needs it. And for what, 1$/day or so in savings?

 

[JulienW]

But I have to connect it to a charger during the day, and by that I will clog the charger to someone who needs it. And for what, 1$/day or so in savings?

Everyone is different and there can be a million different situations. Here is an example that includes no use during standard work hours:

Rates go down at 12AM and car charges to 90%
Rates go up at 5AM and you start feeding the grind while you get ready for work.
You only drive 10 miles to work.
Get home at 5:30PM and start feeding grid until 12AM and car starts charging.

 

[gavine]

But I have to connect it to a charger during the day, and by that I will clog the charger to someone who needs it. And for what, 1$/day or so in savings?

With many people starting to work from home, they can be plugged-in during the day in their garage, selling the cheap energy that they stored. It might only be $1 per day in terms of kWh, but it is being speculated that the utility companies will pay people to feed the grid so it'll be more than just the kWh savings. Perfect situation to get solar, especially where they don't offer net metering.

 

[SergeyUser]

With many people starting to work from home, they can be plugged-in during the day in their garage, selling the cheap energy that they stored. It might only be $1 per day in terms of kWh, but it is being speculated that the utility companies will pay people to feed the grid so it'll be more than just the kWh savings. Perfect situation to get solar, especially where they don't offer net metering.

Wouldn’t it be better to combine solar with battery (out-of-car) as a more efficient model?

 

[JulienW]

Wouldn’t it be better to combine solar with battery (out-of-car) as a more efficient model?

Car batteries are much larger and you don't have to buy another battery and will save a lot on your installation.

 

[TomT]

The only thing I might use it for is powering the house in the event of a power failure... I suspect that it would be like solar inverters, however, and refuse to power on if it detected no AC present already...

 

[TraumaDoc]

Surely much more effective, and efficient for tesla to manufacture a battery that you could put on the wall inside your garage.... or maybe a big farm of batteries on disused land near to a wind or solar farm..... oh, wait....

I cant see many people shelling out $50k+ for their car, already anxious about range and battery performance and then willingly putting it through double the number of charge / discharge cycles that they currently do and risking the battery degrading or worse, needing the car in an emergency and finding it discharged in the middle of the night, but hey - 0.03c richer!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

The only thing I might use it for is powering the house in the event of a power failure... I suspect that it would be like solar inverters, however, and refuse to power on if it detected no AC present already...

Hopefully if Powerwalls and a gateway are present, it would work during outages.

Surely much more effective, and efficient for tesla to manufacture a battery that you could put on the wall inside your garage.... or maybe a big farm of batteries on disused land near to a wind or solar farm..... oh, wait....

I cant see many people shelling out $50k+ for their car, already anxious about range and battery performance and then willingly putting it through double the number of charge / discharge cycles that they currently do and risking the battery degrading or worse, needing the car in an emergency and finding it discharged in the middle of the night, but hey - 0.03c richer!

I'm not that sold on V2G yet but I'd definitely be interested in V2H during emergencies. With our Powerwalls, we have about 52 kWh of storage. If we could add our Tesla batteries to the mix during emergencies, that would jump to over 375 kWh of battery storage.

We had a 2 day outage last year and our solar and Powerwalls kept us running for most of that outage. Technical problems caused issues on day two but those have since been resolved. We later did a 200 hour off-grid test and managed just fine powering the house and multiple Teslas thanks to several sunny days, even with a foot of snow. With 375 kWh...we could easily go weeks off the grid. My brother in Kansas was recently without electricity for over a week due to a blizzard. If he'd had solar and been able to use a car for V2H, he could've easily kept everything running. Instead, he had to spend a day standing in line, waiting for a truckload of generators to arrive. He then had to fill up gas cans every day for a week and drive 30 miles roundtrip between his house and the nearest gas station. Over 99% of the time, he wouldn't need to use his car for power...but that 1% of the time, V2H would be very useful.

 

[Msjulie]

Wouldn’t it be better to combine solar with battery (out-of-car) as a more efficient model?

We installed solar with regular old batteries (small compared to the 3); batteries for 2 reasons:

1. 1 is to do 'peak shaving' where the battery feeds the house demand (a specific set of circuits we selected) during peek cost time like 4 to 8 or something. Our solar gets those batteries full up generally well before noon so far
2. PG&E wouldn't exactly be called the 100% reliable solution so those batteries can keep the selected circuits going during outs, planned or otherwise for a time

Big @ss car battery sure would do a better job there even with settings to limit how low it could be drawn - our 'peak shaving' setting doesn't let the batteries go below 40% so they are there for PG&E outage times.

Question I would have is using that big but expensive car battery for daily cycling outside driving, how does it impact it's overall 'age'?

 

[joltheadq]

Several highlights in the upcoming battery technology announcement. The 3rd generation wall connector is wifi capable. The model 3 is bidirectional hardware enabled. Tesla Autobidder set to sequester power when cheap and sell when profitable.

Tesla will offer customers the ability to transform their stationary vehicles into passive revenue sources. Albeit, very low yield profit machines. As your car sits at home not being driven, leaving it connected at home does two purposes.
1.) Maintains the health of the pack with low strain charge/discharge.
2.) Strategically charges/discharges to the grid to drive profit.

Ideally, Tesla wants to drive profit via selling batteries. They steadily ride production capacity furthering speculation that battery yields are impractical for utilities to make large scale purchases. Rather Tesla can focus on selling the potential gWh of power to the utility companies. TSLA stock is about to go through the roof.