Welp, we're now a 2 EV household...............and the 2nd EV ISN'T A TESLA!!! (ZOMG111ELEVENTY111!!!!)

We just picked up our 2nd EV, and I have to say that Tesla wasn't even in the running. Not because we don't like Tesla, because we do, but because we liked another EV better on balance - the Genesis GV60. Ours is the "Performance" trim, and the straight-line speed certainly lives up to that moniker, even if the handling doesn't quite.

We'd been thinking we'd need to order one and wait, but lucked out and found an available one in a color combination that SWMBO loved in stock at our local dealership. It's Matte White over Blue Nappa leather, with lime green trim on the seats and dash. Believe me when I say that I'd have NEVER thought she'd choose that color combination, but as soon as she opened the door she was like "I LOVE it - it's both luxurious and sporty!" (this is a woman who shies away from strong colors in every other aspect of her life, so it's truly stunning to me that she likes this, but )

The drive experience is really nice - extremely smooth and quiet, with a comfortable ride and great seats. The adaptive/adjustable suspension does a nice job, though I must say that I'd personally prefer a slightly "tighter" overall demeanor. It's perfect for her though, so that's what matters.

It's not as practical (read: cargo room) as some of the competition, but as we're empty-nesters, practicality wasn't the most important trait.

The cabin tech has a fairly steep learning curve, but we're getting the hang of it.

The audio system sounds really good, and the driving assistance systems seem to work well.

Our first EA charging session went off without a hitch, and the charging speed was truly eye-popping. It was still pulling 137KW at 80% SOC, which is NUTS:

3 years of 30-minute DC fast-charging sessions are included in the purchase price, so for our rare road trips that will be nice. There are also 4 350KW EA chargers less than 20 minutes from home, so we may pop over there from time to time for some free juice.

I bought a Tesla Tap so we can charge the GV60 with our Tesla charging cable, and the charge port location even means that our cable reaches the car with no problem:

Anyway, I'd be glad to answer any questions if anyone has any, but it seems to be a really nice vehicle overall, and we're (she's) happy! ;-)

 

[srs5694]

The EA network as a whole feels like the absolute minimum was done to complete the task of "electrifying the nation's highways", while the Supercharger network feels like it was built to fully enable EVs to serve as an only vehicle. That's a critical distinction, IMHO.

In fairness, EA has been building out its network for much less time than Tesla has, so it's not surprising that Tesla remains ahead in terms of the number of both sites and stalls. The last I heard, there were more CCS sites than Supercharger sites in the USA, but that aggregates all the different CCS providers; and also the last I heard, there were more Supercharger stalls than CCS stalls, since Tesla tends to build sites with more stalls. I don't know if those statistics remain true today. Both Supercharger and CCS networks continue to be built out, so considering plans for near-term and long-term development is important when comparing them.

IMHO, the biggest problem with CCS at the moment is reliability. As you noted, there are far too many instances of CCS sites where multiple stalls don't work. This is rare with Superchargers -- but not unheard-of. On a road trip over the holidays, I ran into a Supercharger site in which at least five of the eight stalls were non-functional. The sixth stall I tried worked, so I didn't test the remaining two. This sort of problem is noteworthy for Superchargers because it's so rare; it is, sadly, far more common with EA.

 

[nate704]

 

[Apprunner]

In fairness, EA has been building out its network for much less time than Tesla has, so it's not surprising that Tesla remains ahead in terms of the number of both sites and stalls. The last I heard, there were more CCS sites than Supercharger sites in the USA, but that aggregates all the different CCS providers; and also the last I heard, there were more Supercharger stalls than CCS stalls, since Tesla tends to build sites with more stalls. I don't know if those statistics remain true today. Both Supercharger and CCS networks continue to be built out, so considering plans for near-term and long-term development is important when comparing them.

IMHO, the biggest problem with CCS at the moment is reliability. As you noted, there are far too many instances of CCS sites where multiple stalls don't work. This is rare with Superchargers -- but not unheard-of. On a road trip over the holidays, I ran into a Supercharger site in which at least five of the eight stalls were non-functional. The sixth stall I tried worked, so I didn't test the remaining two. This sort of problem is noteworthy for Superchargers because it's so rare; it is, sadly, far more common with EA.

Having more CCS sites is a farce. A ton of sites are 50kw or less and 25-50% of them are broken. Most of the sites i've been to are 4 stall...really doesn't inspire confidence when road tripping. I'll just use my Tesla for the next 6 months for road trips until i see improvement in this area.

 

[Zcd1]

Follow-up to the follow-up:

We took our GV60 on its first road trip over the weekend - about 150 miles each way to Los Angeles and back.

The drives served to reinforce many of my original impressions of the car, including that it's an extremely comfortable cruiser and very, very quiet. 4 adults and their luggage for the weekend fit easily. We ran Google Maps and Spotify/Pandora via Apple CarPlay, which worked well. Our hotel in Marina Del Ray had on-site Tesla Destination Chargers, so using our Tesla Tap, we were able to top-up overnight at no additional cost, eliminating the need to search for appropriate DC fast charging.

Averaged about 2.8 miles/KWH on the outbound, and 2.7 on the return - about what I'd expected. Motorway speeds of about 75 mph except when the torrential rains made that unwise, but the slower speeds combined with the extra drag from the rain-soaked pavement seem to have just about canceled each other out as effects on efficiency.

The massaging driver's seat was....interesting. Not sure I loved it, but I also didn't hate it. I will say that I found the overall seat comfort to be "okay", but not as plush as I might have hoped.

There are 4 things I'd change if I could:
- I'd add an even firmer setting for the adjustable suspension. The rebound damping, even in "Sport" drive mode is a bit lax for my taste.
- I'd ask that ALL driver settings be saved to the driver profile. As it stands, the car defaults to "Comfort" driving mode each time it's started.
- I'd add the ability for the car to come to a complete stop regardless of which level of regenerative braking is selected. As it currently stands, only the most aggressive "i-Pedal" drive mode includes that ability.
- I'd make the "Boost" acceleration mode an on/off thing, not just a temporary 10-second burst. I understand that this would impact efficiency, but some of us don't care and want ALL of the car's available performance at any time. (especially as our is the "Performance" model!)

Traffic and weather conditions prevented me from exploring the car's autonomous driving features, so that will have to wait for another road trip.

All in all, a very nice car, and I'm hopeful that future over-the-air updates will address some of my concerns, but even if they don't, SWMBO is still well pleased with it.

 

[MX100DM3P2017]

As a follow up, the OTHER side of buying a non-Tesla EV made itself known this past weekend.

We needed to drive from near Palm Springs, CA to Phoenix. There's only a single, 4-stall EA DC fast-charging charging station between here and there, and at last report from PlugShare, 2 of those stations were off-line. Though the GV60's quiet and comfort would have been enjoyable for the road trip, the chance of needing to wait for a charger for who knows how long was enough to cause us to take our Model 3 instead.

By contrast, there are 2 Supercharger locations at about the midway point of the trip, with a total of 48 (!!!) available chargers.

The EA network as a whole feels like the absolute minimum was done to complete the task of "electrifying the nation's highways", while the Supercharger network feels like it was built to fully enable EVs to serve as an only vehicle. That's a critical distinction, IMHO.

I agree, no one comes close to Tesla Super Charger Network, this is why we still have the MX 100D. The good news is this has had no effect on driving the Genesis G80 EV that is rated at 282 miles and we are getting much better results. I just checked PlugShare route on 10 Fwy from Palm Springs, CA to Phoenix, AZ, EA DC chargers available at Love's Quartzsite. Checking availability right now it shows for CCS, 150 - 350 kW, two available, two in use. Next would be Walmart Supercenter, Buckeye, AZ. Availability for CCS, 150 - 350 kW, one in use, three available. There are many more in Phoenix. I also checked comments made in the past 5-days, all very positive, getting very fast charging including GV60 owner. One big advantage of Genesis EVs is that they are all 800V platforms so fast DC charger should provide a 10% - 80% charge in 18-mins. I have not yet been able to try any charging above 150kW but look forward to road trips this year to see how well 800V platform charges. We all hope all EV charging networks get better, more reliable and more of them soon.

 

[Zcd1]

I just checked PlugShare route on 10 Fwy from Palm Springs, CA to Phoenix, AZ, EA DC chargers available at Love's Quartzsite.

Right - that’s the one we’d have been forced to try to use, since the GV60 won’t make the 253 miles between here and Buckeye/Phoenix without stopping and there aren’t any other DC fast chargers en route.

Given that it was a holiday weekend, seemed like a bad idea to chance it.

 

[MX100DM3P2017]

Right - that’s the one we’d have been forced to try to use, since the GV60 won’t make the 253 miles between here and Buckeye/Phoenix without stopping and there aren’t any other DC fast chargers en route.

Given that it was a holiday weekend, seemed like a bad idea to chance it.

We had the same issue during the holidays. We took our MX 100D on the trip to Vegas to visit our Uncle so we would not have charging issues. Uncle told us to bring the Genesis electric G80 on our next trip which we will do in February. Luckily there are some really good EA DC chargers between Los Angeles and Los Vegas so it should not be a problem. I also confirmed our hotel has J1772 EV chargers so if needed, we can charge overnight. Here is hoping that all EV charging networks improve quality of service and quickly add more sites. Mileage ratings can be tricky, my G80 is rated at 282 miles, EPA full charge. On round trip from Los Angeles to Palm Springs I got 302 miles on 90% charge. Meanwhile, I see multiple reports on MS rated at 402 miles EPA full charge that no one is getting anywhere near that figure. I had Tesla EVs since 2017 and own stock in the company but there are some really gorgeous EVs coming out from other OEMs at much better prices. Even with new lower Tesla pricing, standard MS still cost $24K more vs electric G80. More choices is always better for consumers. I'm happy to report all my Tesla owning friends and family love the gorgeous Genesis and all will be looking at Genesis EVs in the future.

Not in our case, no. MSRP, but with a few small extras thrown in.

Some dealers still show ADM in their listing prices, but there's no real need to pay it.

Genesis does not want their dealers to charge above MSRP. When I was shopping, I signed up for Genesis Concierge Services. They took full control of the sales process by first introducing me to only the EV Certified Dealerships in SoCal. Not all Genesis dealers are certified to sell EVs. Part of the certification are rules not allowing any ADM. Like you, I paid only MSRP plus 5-year extended warranty which means I have 10-years covered. I doubt I will wait 10-years for a new EV but it is nice to have. Tesla use to offer extended warranties, not anymore.

 

[Daekwan]

Seems a lot of you guys are scared.. just to be scared of EA chargers. Here is a tip.. if you own a Tesla, then get the CCS1 adapter and try some of these EA chargers yourself. EA CCS is cheaper than Superchargers in a lot of states so the adapter will eventually pay for itself. I did just that in March of last year and have been pleasantly surprised at just how abundant EA chargers are on the East Coast.. and how well they typically work. That's not to say it's perfect. I have certainly run into my fair share of broken EA chargers.. but what I've found is that if you open the EA app.. choose a charging location and just read the information there it saves a lot of headaches and eliminates most of the frustration. Not only can you see many charging stations are at a specific location.. but they will be clearly marked as Available, Unavailable (broken), or In-Use on the app. Keeps you from wasting time trying to connect your EV to a charger that is clearly marked Unavailable in the app.

I also find that opening the app.. and starting the charging session first, THEN plugging in my Tesla is the most consistent way to initiate a charge. I point this out because it's the complete opposite of the instructions shown on the charger.. which tell you to plug in first to start the charging session. I believe the only people who will benefit from plugging in first are those who own newer non-Tesla EVs that support the "Plug & Charge" standard. That standard is designed to make CCS charging just like Supercharging.. where the car first communicates with the charger.. shares vehicle information and the charging session bills whatever credit card is tied to the owner's account.

I have consistently used EA chargers up and down the NorthEast coast and not once have I been stuck and unable to charge. I have run into a couple of chargers that were marked available.. started charging just fine and the session ended early due to some technical error. But it's been totally random and hasn't happened enough for me to track it. My wife has an ID.4 with 3 years of truly unlimited charging at any EA location.. so as you can imagine I do my best to avoid paying for Supercharging. If anything.. I'd say after almost a year of using EA chargers that they work better than their reputation. And I would have no problem buying/driving a non-Tesla EV at this point.

There are also many different CCS charging networks. EA is just one name. EV-Go for example has a much better reputation.. that said I stick with EA because it's free.

 

[Art84]

I discovered yesterday that EA is almost twice cheaper than SuperCharger because they charge by the minute. And since the charging speed was pretty good, it's almost twice cheaper when calculating price per KWh.

Also, the quickest way to charge at EA, in my opinion, is add EA pass to Apple wallet, in this case, to charge you don't need even to open EA app.
My steps are these
1. Plug the car
2. Double tab on the phone power button to open the wallet and select EA pass
3. Keep the phone next to the stall to activate charging.

Pretty easy.

 

[stesta5074]

I did a road trip in my friends Rivian. He is frantically looking for chargers ahead and reviews to see if they work, and does math in his head based on wh/mi to see how far he can push it.

I looked at him kinda dumbfounded and said... "Wow, you don't know do you?!" Tesla automatically daisy chains a series chargers for maximum speed, with charge times automatically weighted for changing wind, driving speeds, efficiency. If one breaks I wouldn't even know, it would simply route me to a different one on its own.

Yeah, I kinda feel sorry for them. Buying an $80k car and then stressing about charging all the time. Sucks.

 

[stesta5074]

How much is your time worth? Switching to a different charger due to slow or broken status even once a month would not be worth any difference in price.

How much is peace of mind worth? If I ever fear getting stranded even once, it's worth the entire price of the vehicle. If I had to worry about my family getting stranded even once, I wouldn't have an EV. The Tesla supercharger network is priceless to the EV experience, even more so now that they are opening it to others.

 

[nate704]

Just happened to ride in the back seat of friend's GV60, and here is my findings;

1. Very small and tight interior
2. Nice door closing sound/feel
3. Front passenger seat moves back (easy entry/exit type), which was very annoying for passengers in the back (I was behind the front passenger seat).
4. Back seat area was tight and the seat back was very upright, so it was very uncomfortable even during the local driving.
5. Trunk size was way smaller and narrow.
6. Finding working EA chargers is still an issue.

 

[gx9901]

I did a road trip in my friends Rivian. He is frantically looking for chargers ahead and reviews to see if they work, and does math in his head based on wh/mi to see how far he can push it.

I looked at him kinda dumbfounded and said... "Wow, you don't know do you?!" Tesla automatically daisy chains a series chargers for maximum speed, with charge times automatically weighted for changing wind, driving speeds, efficiency. If one breaks I wouldn't even know, it would simply route me to a different one on its own.

Yeah, I kinda feel sorry for them. Buying an $80k car and then stressing about charging all the time. Sucks.

Looks like your friend is in luck, since Rivian just announced that they are adopting NACS and will access the Tesla Supercharger network like Ford and GM starting next year.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Looks like your friend is in luck, since Rivian just announced that they are adopting NACS and will access the Tesla Supercharger network like Ford and GM starting next year.

Reminder: it's V3 plus only. In some areas there is a lot of coverage provided by V2.

Here in Maine, the more Northern Superchargers (Jackman, Skowhegan, Medway, Brewer and Baileyville) are V2. There are CCS alternatives for some of them, but fewer stalls and slower chargers.

 

[gx9901]

Reminder: it's V3 plus only. In some areas there is a lot of coverage provided by V2.

Here in Maine, the more Northern Superchargers (Jackman, Skowhegan, Medway, Brewer and Baileyville) are V2. There are CCS alternatives for some of them, but fewer stalls and slower chargers.

Hopefully Tesla will expand the network exponentially as they onboard more car companies. Otherwise it'll probably be a disaster.

 

[srs5694]

Hopefully Tesla will expand the network exponentially as they onboard more car companies. Otherwise it'll probably be a disaster.

It's also possible that this shift to NACS will light a fire under the rear ends of the current CCS networks. If they add NACS plugs and improve reliability, that will be a big plus for everybody and make it less likely that Tesla will become a DC fast charging monopoly. (Note that I'm not saying I think this outcome is likely, but it is both possible and desirable.)

 

[Darkside213]

Either way, I just hope they figure out a standard soon. Could you imagine different gas pumps for the different brands?

 

[nate704]

I think the NACS will be "the standard" soon. Current 3rd party fast charger network is not doing good anyway. All the small startups, such as Lucid will definitely join to boost their sales, and Hyundai/Kia or Toyota/Subaru/Nissan will follow. If they do, it will be matter of time all the European makers will follow.
Why choose unreliable CCS network with big/stiff/bulky charging cable and plug that are very easy to break as well as the payment system that will take some time to initiate the charging and process the payment.

 

[Gremlin]

You may not need one, but there are some EVSEs that are dual-headed -- they can charge two EVs at once, with power sharing. This is similar to networking two EVSEs (like two Tesla Wall Connectors), but would be simpler to install (or replace an existing EVSE). I haven't yet watched the full review, but one popped up recently of the Grizzl-E DUO:

Of course, it's likely to be simpler in the short term, and cheaper, to just charge one car at a time; but I thought I'd mention this since I saw a link to this review elsewhere.

I like my NeoCharge to charge both cars. It plugs into NEMA 14-50. Right side get priority charge (Roadster UMC) and the Model S mobile charger left side.

 

[Zcd1]

Just happened to ride in the back seat of friend's GV60, and here is my findings;

1. Very small and tight interior
2. Nice door closing sound/feel
3. Front passenger seat moves back (easy entry/exit type), which was very annoying for passengers in the back (I was behind the front passenger seat).
4. Back seat area was tight and the seat back was very upright, so it was very uncomfortable even during the local driving.
5. Trunk size was way smaller and narrow.
6. Finding working EA chargers is still an issue.

• I'm 6' 2" and 200 lbs and fit comfortably in all seating positions in our GV60.
• Rear seatback angle is adjustable - a simple pull on the handle allows setting wherever is comfortable.
• Easy entry is a selectable option
• EA largely remains a sh*t show, but we've charged successfully each time, though sometimes with a bit of trial and error required.
• With a fully functional charger, the overall charging speed is AMAZING.
• It's a far quieter and more luxurious vehicle than any Tesla