What battery charge level for storage?

[CyberGus]

Vampire drain, and the ludicrous power requirements for Sentry/Summon/etc. are a minor inconvenience. They are also a waste of power, and contrary to Tesla's sustainable-energy goals.

I'm hoping that HW4 improves upon standby efficiency, even if it means adding new components.

 

[westom]

And if your home takes a direct strike, then you'll be replacing lots of your stuff, unplugged or not.

A lightning strike anywhere (even blocks away) is a direct strike incoming to all appliances. Due to a homeowner who fails to implement an inexpensive and well proven solution. Direct lightning strikes only cause damage when a homeowner fails to properly install what is required.

Charging to 100% is not destructive. Attempting to recharging a lithium battery at 100% is harmful. A recharge is best only done when a lithium battery is below 95% or 90% (depending on charger design). Leaving a battery at 100% is unharmful as long as a charger is not connected (would restart for any reason).

Running a lithium battery to 50% or lower also exponentially shortens battery life.

Nobody need invite lightning, anytime in the next six weeks, to find earth ground via a Tesla. No good reason for leaving it connected to a charger for six weeks - for those many reasons. Lightning is simply one of many reasons.

Lightning damage to any appliance is so easily averted as to be considered a human mistake.

 

[OliverM3]

A lightning strike anywhere (even blocks away) is a direct strike incoming to all appliances. Due to a homeowner who fails to implement an inexpensive and well proven solution. Direct lightning strikes only cause damage when a homeowner fails to properly install what is required.

Charging to 100% is not destructive. Attempting to recharging a lithium battery at 100% is harmful. A recharge is best only done when a lithium battery is below 95% or 90% (depending on charger design). Leaving a battery at 100% is unharmful as long as a charger is not connected (would restart for any reason).

Running a lithium battery to 50% or lower also exponentially shortens battery life.

Nobody need invite lightning, anytime in the next six weeks, to find earth ground via a Tesla. No good reason for leaving it connected to a charger for six weeks - for those many reasons. Lightning is simply one of many reasons.

Lightning damage to any appliance is so easily averted as to be considered a human mistake.

I think you may be mistaken about the 100%. It absolutely degrades a batteries life if charged and left at 100%. Luckily you don't have access to the 100% of the pack or we would never get the longevity that we have now. There's a reason batteries are put at storage charges for long term storage. It's because 100% absolutely degrades the performance of the battery increasing the internal resistance permanently.

It's not instantly destructive but why shorted your battery life if you don't need to utilize 100% of the charge? Also less destructive charging to 100% then going on a trip so that the pack doesn't sit idle for days. I've flow RC helicopters for years and I definitely see the difference when you take care of your packs as far as longevity.

 

[westom]

It's not instantly destructive but why shorted your battery life if you don't need to utilize 100% of the charge? Also less destructive charging to 100% then going on a trip so that the pack doesn't sit idle for days. I've flow RC helicopters for years and I definitely see the difference when you take care of your packs as far as longevity.

Chargers must charge the battery to determine if it is at 100% or 80%. Unfortunately that 'initial charge to learn what is inside a battery' can shorten battery life.

Been doing lithium batteries before a Tesla. For example, my lithium batteries in a laptop would last 10 and 13 years.

Leaving it on a charger during storage can mean that charger may try to recharge a 100% charged battery. Chemical changes to the surface of electrodes result in that higher resistance - degraded battery.

Leaving it at 90% (which may be reported by Tesla as 75%) also would not be destructive. But the point remains. Leaving it connected to a charger for those six weeks does nothing useful and can result in harm.

 

[OliverM3]

Chargers must charge the battery to determine if it is at 100% or 80%. Unfortunately that 'initial charge to learn what is inside a battery' can shorten battery life.

Been doing lithium batteries before a Tesla. For example, my lithium batteries in a laptop would last 10 and 13 years.

Leaving it on a charger during storage can mean that charger may try to recharge a 100% charged battery. Chemical changes to the surface of electrodes result in that higher resistance - degraded battery.

Leaving it at 90% (which may be reported by Tesla as 75%) also would not be destructive. But the point remains. Leaving it connected to a charger for those six weeks does nothing useful and can result in harm.

That is also not true the batteries are charged to a voltage there is a 100% voltage as well as a storage voltage. Capacity has nothing to do with it . Nothing has to learn capacity to complete a charge . They are charged to a specific voltage. Capacity is just what a computer system calculates to show you based on what the battery has discharged when at full voltage. Cells are also balanced to a voltage not a capacity. Capacity changes based on environmental conditions and temp.

Also your example with a laptop that's what degrades laptop and phone batteries in a year or two it's because there is no way to set them to charge to 50, 60,70% they charge to 100% whenever they are constantly plugged in. So it shortens the lifespan of the battery. Also they don't build in any buffer so 100% is typically max pack voltage.

Just don't charge to 100% unless it's a LFP battery.

 

[CaseyL]

Running a lithium battery to 50% or lower also exponentially shortens battery life.

I find this hard to believe.

 

[OliverM3]

Here I have some shots of me parallel charging some of my smaller packs. I also created a discharge unit that allows me to storage charge the packs incase I get rained out. This lets me discharge at 30amps+ instead of the 1amp limit of most chargers. That way they're not sitting at 100% until the next time I fly.

 

[CyberGus]

Hit by Lightning? (Lightning strikes twice!!!)

 

[westom]

I find this hard to believe.

American laws require battery packs to last 100,000 miles. So American EVs typically do not let their batteries drop below 50%. European EVs do not have that requirement. So European EV drivers do more miles from a recharge.

Three conditions that degrade lithium batteries. Trying to charge it when it is is above 95%. And running lithium batteries below 50%. Charging when a battery's temperature is too cold (approaching 30 degrees F) or too hot (approaching 100 degrees).

 

[jcanoe]

American laws require battery packs to last 100,000 miles.

Source? As far as I am aware the only 100k mile warranty requirement is for plug-in vehicle manufacturers, vehicles that qualify for the federal electric vehicle and plug-in hybrid vehicle tax credit. In California CARB required a 10 year, 150k warranty on the battery.

 

[CaseyL]

American laws require battery packs to last 100,000 miles. So American EVs typically do not let their batteries drop below 50%.

That's just a false assertation.

Americans typically drive their EV's lower than 50% all the time. I do it almost every day.

 

[OliverM3]

Maybe a previously posted chart will help. the 2170 cells have a range of 2.5v to 4.2v
So you're never at 2.5v or or 4.2v when at 0-100% Can't find the official storage charge of the 2170 cell But a normal lipo is 3.85v so I would assume the best long term storage would be around 55% charge.

 

[westom]

Americans typically drive their EV's lower than 50% all the time. I do it almost every day.

What is reported to you as zero is a battery maybe approaching 50%. What is reported to you as 50% maybe a battery at 75% charged.

Understand how batteries work. Previous rechargeable batteries would be at maximum voltage when fully charged. Lithium does not work that way. At the battery gets topped off, its voltage drops. A charger does not first know if a battery is at maybe 85% or 100%. Must keep charging a 100% battery to learn how 'fully' it is.

That is hard on lithium batteries. As is a fast recharge. Reasons why lithium batteries can only be charged with / by a computer. Previous technology batteries never needed such advanced hardware.

Also why better batteries are charged separately. So each cell can be 'topped off' according to when it is fully charged, So that some batteries, in series, do not get overcharged while other batteries get undercharged. So that dendrites and other degradation is not created.

To shorten the life expectancy of a lithium battery significantly, routinely run it down to near zero. "Degradation can be either in the form of the lithium plating or the formation of the surface film."

Average life expectancy of a lithium battery is 300 to 600 full discharges. How does an EV battery last so many thousands of recharges? It does not discharge below 50% capacity. Then battery life expectancy increases exponentially.

Learn what numbers, as told to you, are really saying. We don't tell consumes everything. We dumb it down so that they will only do certain things better.

At one time after a hurricane, Tesla modified software temporarily so that batteries could discharge more. Bad for batteries. Good for consumers who needed a battery to last longer during that emergency.

 

[CaseyL]

What is reported to you as zero is a battery maybe approaching 50%. What is reported to you as 50% maybe a battery at 75% charged.

Understand how batteries work. Previous rechargeable batteries would be at maximum voltage when fully charged. Lithium does not work that way. At the battery gets topped off, its voltage drops. A charger does not first know if a battery is at maybe 85% or 100%. Must keep charging a 100% battery to learn how 'fully' it is.

That is hard on lithium batteries. As is a fast recharge. Reasons why lithium batteries can only be charged with / by a computer. Previous technology batteries never needed such advanced hardware.

Also why better batteries are charged separately. So each cell can be 'topped off' according to when it is fully charged, So that some batteries, in series, do not get overcharged while other batteries get undercharged. So that dendrites and other degradation is not created.

To shorten the life expectancy of a lithium battery significantly, routinely run it down to near zero. "Degradation can be either in the form of the lithium plating or the formation of the surface film."

Average life expectancy of a lithium battery is 300 to 600 full discharges. How does an EV battery last so many thousands of recharges? It does not discharge below 50% capacity. Then battery life expectancy increases exponentially.

Learn what numbers, as told to you, are really saying. We don't tell consumes everything. We dumb it down so that they will only do certain things better.

At one time after a hurricane, Tesla modified software temporarily so that batteries could discharge more. Bad for batteries. Good for consumers who needed a battery to last longer during that emergency.

Your post is a random word salad. I responded because you said Anericans don't typically drive EV's below 50% SOC. I regret responding because now you say 0% is 50% and 50% is 75%. That would make 100% really 125%?

If you have a point, I don't get it ... and I've lost interest.

 

[westom]

That would make 100% really 125%?

Demonstrated is a mistake that layman make. Assume a linear relationship. Numbers we tell you are insufficient to know what is happening. We only tell you enough to know when a recharge is or will be necessary'.

No battery drops to 0%. All batteries (when we declare them dead) are above 0%.

Typically, we tell say a battery is at zero percent when it still has a 20% charge. For American EVs, that number is much higher - well above 20%. A percent number, that we tell you, cannot say how much is actually in a battery.

You should asking to learn rather than use naivety to attack the messenger.

Layman are only provided a generalized number; sufficient to make a ballpark conclusion. We do not even tell you that lithium batteries are only good for 300 to 600 full discharges. You did not know why lithium batteries are recharged massively more times without failing. We tell you a battery is at 0% when it is maybe only 50% discharged. That 0% number is all that that a naive consumer need know.

 

[boulder.dude]

I think westom is a bot.

 

[westom]

I think westom is a bot.

Many are experts without first learning how a battery really works. As indicated denials without even one fact and no relevant numbers. Denials without even one fact and no numbers identifies an expert who forgot to first learn.

Facts with numbers often make the most technically naive emotional.

According to Car and Driver:

... lithium-ion batteries go from 0 to 100 percent in a charging cycle, they undergo the most intensive use-case possible. According to the founder of Cadex Electronics, Isidor Buchmann, these batteries can only handle this intense charging cycle roughly 500 times before they experience serious depletion.

Obviously if a battery will last eight years, then it must be recharged thousands of times. How is that accomplished? That 0% charge number is actually a battery only discharged to maybe 50%. But somehow too complicated when an expert forgets to first learn.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

We seem to be going 'round and 'round over this battery thing. Seems to depend on the chemistry of the battery cells.

Nickel + other "stuff" seem to be happiest somewhere between 20% and 80%. LFP seems less impacted by SoC (But still are to a degree. That's just the way it is.)

The thing is, most of us will have sold off our current crop of EVs sometime well south of their "toss out" date.

For the record I keep our MY at 80% most of the time. Once in a while I get crazy and push the SoC to 100%, just to let the battery know I love it. Also, on trips it's set to 100%, just because.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!!


Rich

 

[CaseyL]

For the record I keep our MY at 80% most of the time. Once in a while I get crazy and push the SoC to 100%, just to let the battery know I love it. Also, on trips it's set to 100%, just because.

For my daily commutes, I operate in the 60% to 40% range. This puts the car around 50% while it sits in my work parking lot all day (under the Florida sun).

We go on frequent road trips. I'll go up to 80 or 90% as needed. I aim to return home with 20% remaining.

 

[OliverM3]

Here this will solve the whole issue.