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What constitutes speeding?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by brianman, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    No thanks. I don't want or need nanny features.
     
  2. daericks

    daericks New Member

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    Actually...

    This is interesting from the standpoint of reality... I used to have a Garmin that told me the speed limit where I was. I wish that was in the google maps!
     
  3. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Elon has often said "Safety is paramount".

    My mind always goes to a dark, "1984"-esque place when I hear comments like that.
     
  4. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    But if you're someone who regularly breaks the law by speeding then I'd prefer you not driving on the same roads as me, my family members, my friends or other innocents who obey the speed limit out of respect for the safety of their fellow man. If you don't speed, then what's the big deal if your car let's you know you're attention has slipped momentarily? :smile:
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Ditto.

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    The suggestion was "ticket prevention" not "ticket warning". The former screams "governor" to me while the latter mumbles "radar detector". Huge difference to me.

    So speeding implies lack of safety? Violating a speed limit anywhere on any road implies lack of safety? Sorry, but I completely disagree. We already have at least one thread about public-budget-motivated speed limits, so no need to branch to that topic here.
     
  6. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    What constitutes speeding? Going higher than 65? 75? 85? Does that mean everyone that is legally going > 100mph on the autobahn is speeding? No. Highway speed limits are a ridiculous subjective limitation. Highway speed limits were initially throttled in the 1970s in response to the gas shortage. This makes them completely irrelevant to the Model S. There is no speed limit for electric cars.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I seem to recall speed limits before 1970 :) but yes, some speed limits are about revenue generation rather than about safety. And even electric cars use more energy going faster. I'm not convinced that using as much energy as possible to save a few minutes on a trip is a good goal. My thought is that speed is a lot like camber--it doesn't cause problems in and of itself, but it amplifies any problems that arise.

    Speed limits are supposed to be mainly based on sight distances (road maintenance conditions, proximity to schools, frequent pedestrian/cyclists, and cross traffic are other real reasons to reduce the speed limit). Designing a road for a 90 mph (145 km/h) sight distance means that the speed limit should be 70 or 75 mph (110-120 km/h). In general, the shorter the sight distance, the cheaper it is to make the road but the slower you can safely go. Obviously the Autobahn has long site distances and excellent maintenance. Comparing that to North American roads is kind of pointless because North America is unlikely to have the same construction and maintenance standards as Germany--people just won't pay for it.

    Increasing the speed limits to close to the road's designed sight distance (as they are now doing in Texas) means that the driver has to be much more aware at all times. Since most drivers use cruise control on the highways, their awareness is not nearly as high as it should be because they are not actively thinking about driving the car--and their knowledge of the physics of cars traveling a various speeds is close to zero.
     
  8. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    I am not at all sure what you are saying here. Can you elaborate? To me, speeding is anything in excess of the posted limit. BTW most of the autobahns have speed limits too, just not everywhere. Since I am old enough to remember it I will also point out that due to gasoline shortages in the early 1970's speed limits were reduced, but most of those reductions (all??) were revoked and speeds were increased after the shortages. To say there are no speed limits for electric cars is, to me, ludicrous since limits were/are established more for safety reasons than for gasoline economy.
     
  9. wcalvin

    wcalvin Member

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    #9 wcalvin, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
    Tolerance re enforcing speed limits has a side effect. When 90% of cars are exceeding, cops can stop almost anyone they feel like. It also makes them suspicious of the 10% staying under, especially in areas with lots of illegal immigrants.

    Were the speed limit enforced, cops would need probable cause to pull over a car they were suspicious of.

    Tolerance also makes for flexibility in budgeting. Should there be a shortfall in municipality income, the police can make it up with fines by reducing tolerance temporarily.

    Back in the 1973 oil crisis, there was a nationwide 50 mph speed limit (there is only half the air resistance at 50 as there is at 70mph). It was very comfortable driving because everyone was going the same speed, and so they spaced out rather than clumping.
     
  10. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Speeding by definition is travelling faster than the posted limit.

    Don't be silly.

    Speeding isn't confined to highways. And using your own adjective, set speed limits and whether they are ridiculous or not is 'subjective.'. Certainly you can ask any number of people who've been victims of speed...oh, wait...no you can't, many are dead.

    Wow. Not even sure how to respond to that.

    I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can argue 'for' speeding in large, heavy metal objects outside of a racetrack, where everyone is a professional with thousands of hours of practice and knowingly risks their lives. I'm now removing myself from this conversation to prevent the relocation of posts to the snippiness thread.
     
  11. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Speeding tickets should be renamed "Driving Fast Tax" :smile:

    Ticket prevention mode is when your Radar Detector is "ON"

    California is silly with tickets. It's a revenue thing!! I counted 5 CHP's within 20 miles, 101 North of Beullton last night. All were writing tickets for driving ~75. Be careful in this area!!
     
  12. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    *shrug*

    For the average person, yes and yes, because along with speeding tends to come

    weaving in and out of traffic
    impatience, irritability and other associated feelings - otherwise, why are you speeding in the first place
    distraction - I've found myself on occasion to be exceeding the speed limit when listening to one of my variety rock songs, just going along, singing, enjoying myself - oops!
    if a person thinks it's okay to speed, what else do they think it's okay to do? text while driving? do makeup while driving? dig through a briefcase?

    Congratulations if you're someone who can regularly speed and not put yourself or anyone else in danger, and have mad skills in case someone else isn't paying attention as you come whizzing by them, but I am unimpressed unless your name is Jimmy Johnson and the like.
     
  13. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    You're assuming that the only purpose of a posted speed limit is safety. But it's not - there are many non-safety reasons for speed limits:

    * Highways that run next to residential neighborhood - in order to cut down on noise and air pollution.
    * National or statewide upper limit standards - no matter how safe a particular stretch of road is.
    * Roads that frequently, but not always, have perilous transient conditions such as fog, but a variable speed limit is too difficult or expensive to enforce.
    * Making certain roads more attractive to drive on than others.
    * Artificially low speed limits because it is assumed drivers will drive over the limit. **
    * Energy preservation.
    * Revenue generation.

    ** I remember that a few years ago a bunch of people were protesting the posted speed limit in a city (I think Toronto), by getting together and driving in rolling barricades at ... the speed limit. The result is that the city was stuck in gridlock for hours and eventually the drivers were arrested (but let go). It is ridiculous when we live in a society where there are some rules that are intended to be broken in order for society to function, but we do.
     
  14. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    #14 ElSupreme, Feb 24, 2014
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    It was some Georgia State people in 2005 in Atlanta. I entered the same college movie competition they did. Their's was much better. Mine involved a (granted elaborate) beer run on bicycles.

    Link was hard a hell to find!

     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Thanks, ElSupreme. The music at the end was worth it alone.
     
  16. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    #16 AnOutsider, Feb 24, 2014
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    That was painful to watch... and they beat you? Anywho, I get the point they were trying to make, but isn't "keep right, except to pass" a thing down there too?
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    In some areas of WA, OR, and CA it seems that the left lane is the slowest lane when there is more than 1 car on the road.
     
  18. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Well they got honorable mention for subject. Their editing was pretty terrible. We took about 16 minutes of film and cut it to about 4:30 (and we had about 60 beers between the 5 of us). So ours was absolutely terrible.

    I did talk with one of them. They apparently did their homework. There are 'obstructing traffic' laws (never enforced) that 'require' one to move left if someone is attempting to overtake them. But it doesn't really work at the speed limit. In that they are not required to impede their own travel, but are not required to exceed the speed limit. Thus moving in lockstep at the speed limit is not 'obstructing traffic'. It wasn't directly spelled out but it was a very defensible position. I believe this stunt (which made local news) ended up causing some revision to the law.

    And no in Atlanta the right lane is not often used. People many times will immediately move 3-4 lanes left upon entering the interstate and then proceed to go 65-70 (much slower than typical fast lane traffic). In general you can bomb the right lane (but watch out for entrance ramps, and heavily used exits), or weave the left two lanes. Much like California almost all of the interstate is 4+ lanes each direction until you get way out in the suburbs. Speed limits in Atlanta are 55mph and 65mph (about 60/40, with the further out interstates being 65 and the interior being 55), with ~half (South of I-20) of the 63 mile perimeter being upped to 65mph (from 55) in January 2014.

    As much as I would have hated to be behind these clowns. It shows that the speed limit is dangerous, and unreasonable. I tend to drive very fast on interstate and other limited access roads. But I rarely drive more than 5 over on surface streets. There are significant differences between the two.
     
  19. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    I belonged to a group in the 70's called "Citizens Coalition for Rational Traffic Laws" CCRTL. A google search shows them pretty inactive now.
     
  20. 7racer

    7racer Member

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    I'm with Brianman,

    speed doesn't kill and people who speed don't automatically weave in and out of traffic. In Germany, where there are some of the fewest speed restrictions has one of the lowest mortality rate. So either speed doesn't kill or that Germans are better drivers?

    anyways, one of the best arguments that I have seen arguing that speed "Kills"

    This Is The Best Takedown Of The ll Ever See

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    and please watch the whole video....I found it enjoyable :)

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