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What Do I Lose w/FSD??

I'm really happy with FSD NOA on the highway.
Are you saying you don't have the constant phantom braking on the interstates? Are those mostly in suburban traffic? That point has not been clear to me.

I don't have FSD - perhaps a blessing in disguise the Elon ghosted us with the camera upgrades. My initial reaction was the geek in me and wanting to jump in with both feet - been in the software business forever. I use AP constantly everywhere. I don't mind constant intervention in suburbia - pretty much have that now. But it is pretty much predictable. If phantom braking on the interstate is happening, I may just wait 6 months and count my blessings.

So what do I lose if I get FSD?
  1. At least suburban much more stressful driving
  2. Maybe loss of surround vision? But I'm on Android anyway and that's apparently not available yet
  3. Significantly less Wh/M?
If freeway phantom braking were an issue, I'd definitely wait a while. That's primarily what I'm trying to clarify. But is there anything else you really wish you could still do that you cannot on FSD?

Thx.
 
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Reactions: mark95476

blkswn

2020 M3 LR AWD
Sep 22, 2020
53
29
Los Angeles
FSD Beta suburban driving is more of a chore, a bit erratic at times especially with the choppy turning, and requires a lot of intervention whether that is in the form of giving the car help with the accelerator or taking over completely. However, for me, the fascination and admiration of the tech makes it enjoyable.

I have noticed braking behavior is different on FSD Beta than on NOA/AP as it seems to prioritize using the brakes vs using regen to coast to a stop. Phantom braking for me is a guarantee. Even on the highway, I get dozens of micro phantom braking events and a couple hard braking events every day. I've noticed that if a car changes lanes towards you at even an acceptable fast pace, the car seems to want to be extra cautious and brake. Production NOA does this too in case of possible collision courses, but FSD Beta is more sensitive. Also, I'm not sure if it's FSD Beta or the last couple updates but the car speeds up quickly and brakes really hard in stop-and-go traffic even if the car in front of you only moves 1-2 car lengths. I haven't had this issue with Radar-enabled NOA since I first got the car in 2020.

The other annoyance is that the driver monitoring system is fairly strict. I drive in gridlocked traffic in Los Angeles and checking the map for alternative routes, checking waze, changing music playlists, etc will cause the car to yell at you even if you're in standstill traffic.
 
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You lose radar - which apparently, actually prevents the worst of phantom braking.
So if you had a 200 mile interstate trip to take, would you use FSD beta?

I'll also assume inclement weather does not work with FSD either. With radar it can do a better job than I can on a dark, rainy night. That's a useful feature for me, although rarely used.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: mark95476
Understood and appreciated. But are the bugs just as proficient on the interstate as they are in suburbia? Or is interstate travel more like pre-FSD?
I have to say, at least for me (2018 M3), interstate driving really hasn't seemed to change at all. Others have remarked that the change from radar to vision only (which should apply to me as well) has made it all-around worse. Personally, the phantom braking is driving me nuts on suburban roads @ 40+ MPH, but on the highway it reverts to the old NoAP stack and things feel more or less "normal" again (normal as in pre-FSD Beta).

That's just me though. I find it very odd that people seem to be having such wildly varying experiences with this.
 
I believe it can be summed up this way: you go from using FSD capability to FSD testing. It is NOT meant for trusting and using in a normal way, it's meant for testing and reporting problems. FSD testing is paying attention MUCH more than normal driving. When I have to do something with my phone, for instance.. you should DISENGAGE and drive old-school until you're again free to pay attention fully

Worth every moment, for those that understand that! If that's not for you, no harm in trying it for a bit.. for those that aren't used to beta testing, it may end up a bit frustrating (as you can see all the complaining in the forums)
 
FSD Beta suburban driving is more of a chore, a bit erratic at times especially with the choppy turning, and requires a lot of intervention whether that is in the form of giving the car help with the accelerator or taking over completely. However, for me, the fascination and admiration of the tech makes it enjoyable.

I have noticed braking behavior is different on FSD Beta than on NOA/AP as it seems to prioritize using the brakes vs using regen to coast to a stop. Phantom braking for me is a guarantee. Even on the highway, I get dozens of micro phantom braking events and a couple hard braking events every day. I've noticed that if a car changes lanes towards you at even an acceptable fast pace, the car seems to want to be extra cautious and brake. Production NOA does this too in case of possible collision courses, but FSD Beta is more sensitive. Also, I'm not sure if it's FSD Beta or the last couple updates but the car speeds up quickly and brakes really hard in stop-and-go traffic even if the car in front of you only moves 1-2 car lengths. I haven't had this issue with Radar-enabled NOA since I first got the car in 2020.

The other annoyance is that the driver monitoring system is fairly strict. I drive in gridlocked traffic in Los Angeles and checking the map for alternative routes, checking waze, changing music playlists, etc will cause the car to yell at you even if you're in standstill traffic.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
3,499
4,904
Atlanta
You’ll also lose the ability to keep the car to one lane when on FSD beta. It will change lanes automatically despite AP settings.
If you have lane change cut off in AP it will not change lanes when using the AP Stack. Of course you can only use the AP Stack on highways and not on local roads.
You lose AP at 85 mph. FSD beta limits it to 80 mph.
You get the Vision AP Stack replacing the Radar AP Stack if you have a radar equipped car. If you have a new Y or 3 you don't have a Radar and can only get the Vision only AP Stack as standard anyway. The Vision AP Stack is temporarily limited to 80MPH/Follow Distance minimum 2. This probably will be expanded to 90MPH/1 Follow Distance by the time we get FSD Beta full Stack integration (11.x)
 
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Also, with FSD you lose the latest non-FSD goodies, like remote camera view from the app, vision based parking, waypoints. None of which I found in the FSD software.

In daily driving, on highways it’s pretty much the same old NoA, however on city streets you become a full-time baby sitter, looking after a kid that often wants to do the wrong thing. FSD is fascinating and I enjoy “training” it, but using it is more frustrating than just driving the car myself in the city. Nonetheless I try to use FSD most of the time.

I have to say though, I was really stressed driving FSD in the first week in the city but now I got a good routine and I’m not afraid of it anymore. It sometimes tries to do very stupid things very suddenly and surprisingly, but if you constantly pay attention, you can catch it 100% of the time before it gets bad. I just hope the feedback gets sent back to Tesla at disengagements even when I don’t press the camera button.
 
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Can only speak to my personal experiences but I feel like getting access to FSD beta hasn't made me lose anything. More importantly, even NoA highway driving seems improved. For instance, there's an interchange on my commute to work where the car, prior to FSD, would ask me to take over and do by myself. On FSD Beta 10.4, the car attempts this interchange itself.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
3,499
4,904
Atlanta
Also, with FSD you lose the latest non-FSD goodies, like remote camera view from the app, vision based parking, waypoints. None of which I found in the FSD software.....
Live Camera View is available as well as vision Based Perpendicular Parking in 36.8.5/10.4 Beta. Looks like Beta will keep up with future features faster (say that 3 times fast) than it has in the past. Still will be a little lag since we only get a new release every 2 to 3 weeks. As of now Beta doesn't have Waypoints or Tidal Music. Probably will get both of these on 10.5.
 
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