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What do you think 2019 holds for the Model 3?

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https://electrek.co/2018/12/31/tesla-model-3-inventory-us/

Let's assume that this is correct - that Tesla will end the year with a few thousand cars in inventory. Grand scheme, not a big deal. But it seems to suggest that they've already blown through the supposedly massive pre-order backlog they had, except for the people still holding out for the "$35k" version. And they are pushing HARD right now to try to sell every last Model 3 in the US that they can in 2018 (44 stores open until midnight tonight).

Have they built enough of the premium versions to support a $35k version?

With the loss of the tax credit, will it now be a $38.75k version?

Do you think there will be additional Model 3 variants, like Performance or AWD? Before or after the cheapest version?
 
3750 isn't going to make me switch to Bolt. You never throw good money after bad. Pay more or wait longer, whatever it takes.

People have financial circumstances that they just couldn't execute last month of 2018.

Anything left, some go into test drive fleet. Some can go into loaner fleet. Some can go on a boat for overseas that can count under Q1 deliveries.

They don't have leases available yet

3000 cars is like 3-4 days worth of production. Tesla has a bigger problem if they completely dried up versus having a small amount of cars left.

35K version likely doesn't happen until back half of 2019. That is going to be $35,000 - $1750 federal credit.

Tesla is going to keep walking down to the 35K base version with premium interior, AWD first to keep margin up.

In the meanwhile, Tesla can offer carrots that can absorb some of the $3750 loss to keep sales going.
 
We are eagerly waiting for the premium versions here in Europe, and so are the Asians. Don’t forget that the U. S. market is only a tiny part of the world market and the Model 3 is as exciting to us as it was for you (ok, except for the Germans, they will still believe the i3 is better, because, panel gaps, and German cars are always better, you know ^^). So I would expect that Musk will be able to sell several times the amount of premium cars they sold in the U.S. up to now in the rest of the world.

So no worries, on the contrary: Looks like Musk almost perfectly timed the production to the reduction of the environment tax credit in the U.S., so he es now ready to open deliveries for the rest of the world.

The total number of U.S sales should now be around 150k, if I understood this correctly, which is really impressive, given the fact that up to now only premium cars were available (how many of the sold cars are midrange, do we have a number there?), and given the total worldwide number of reservations of around 500000. So the total market should be way bigger than 500000. I would even expect he will be able to easily sell >500k premium cars alone worldwide. Wow.

The question will be if Musk is ready to take a further step of product differentiation in the U.S now to keep sales numbers high. He recently announced that the base model will be available within 3 to 6 months. So one might expect them to launch at least some less expensive options in the U.S. soon. Standard battery? Standard interior? But probably not the absolute base model as long as he is unable to produce this at a cost significantly below 35 k. Ok, this might only happen if he has enough production capacity. If not he is likely to accept a decline in U.S. sales and still use his capacity for premium cars.

Happy new year.
 
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The US market is not a "tiny" part of the world market. For premiums, it is usually about 50%. For Tesla, it has been about 50%.
Now the 3 is smaller so it will have a bit greater success in parts of the world that prefer smaller - ie nearly everywhere but the US (and maybe Australia?)

Many expected the MR was a stopgap to maximize sales for 2018. Maybe the LR-rwd will come back?
Hard to know.

Tesla can ship the entire production of 2019 overseas and sell them. But that will kill cash flow for Q1. I think they will need a demand lever in the US so that they can sell 1/2 of production in the US for cash flow. It could be leasing. It could be free supercharging - although that is getting old. I am hopeful there will be a price decrease. Not $3750 but $2000 or so.
 
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Pieces of the above posts is what I believe will shake out in 2019 for Model 3...
- a return of the LR RWD to the menu of offerings, now that initial MR demand has been satisfied, for NA buyers
- completion of Wave 1 (AWD/P) EU fulfillment, followed by LR RWD EU fulfillment in Wave 2, MR in Wave 3 (we've seen this movie in NA and it has worked well for Tesla in 2018); each wave occurring as initial demand is sated for each prior wave
- EU/China receiving the bulk of Month 1 production in each quarter, with that tapering in Month 2 and being a trickle in Month 3. Even though Elon has said Tesla will smooth out global deliveries on S/X to wean itself off the tradition of producing for non-NA markets early each quarter, I think Tesla will not have this luxury with Model 3 initially since producing for EU/China in Month 3 will cause too material a reduction in revenue/cash flow for Tesla for the time being. This can be moderated over time of course, not unlike the S/X plan.
- Depending how strong these waves of demand (above) are from the EU/China, will dictate the timing of opening up SR+PUP in the US, and the portion of production that Tesla dedicates to these lower margin vehicles. It's a balance, and not one that will be difficult for Tesla to manage.
- I will contend that we will see SR+PUP open up in USQ3, but that guess is so heavily dependent on EU/China demand for higher priced versions that it's a wild guess on my part of course. What I think I do know for sure is that Tesla won't end up fulfilling every last AWD/P order before opening up SR+PUP because it's the mix of production/sales that will enable Tesla to be profitable offering SRs. In other words, if say in 4Q19 Tesla sells ~100% SRs, that may not be a profitable company.
- First Model Ys will roll off the line in 1Q20, with reservations having been taken beginning in late March 2019.
- Model 3 continuing demand will become a second-page story once Model Y / Pickup / Semi have the spotlight. Just like S/X have yielded the spotlight to Model 3 in 2018.
 
The US market is not a "tiny" part of the world market. For premiums, it is usually about 50%. For Tesla, it has been about 50%.
Now the 3 is smaller so it will have a bit greater success in parts of the world that prefer smaller - ie nearly everywhere but the US (and maybe Australia?)

Many expected the MR was a stopgap to maximize sales for 2018. Maybe the LR-rwd will come back?
Hard to know.

Tesla can ship the entire production of 2019 overseas and sell them. But that will kill cash flow for Q1. I think they will need a demand lever in the US so that they can sell 1/2 of production in the US for cash flow. It could be leasing. It could be free supercharging - although that is getting old. I am hopeful there will be a price decrease. Not $3750 but $2000 or so.

The US is not a "tiny part" of the world, however it is NOT the primary luxury market for most luxury manufacturers anymore... including the germans. China is (check the numbers if you dont think thats true).

"Rest of World" is as important / more important than "just US" from a profitability standpoint, and sales volume point as well. I believe that demand (and sales) in "rest of world" will do more to make tesla profitable than the US.

Saying that, the US is still an important market, and its Tesla's home market. Winning your "home" market tends to be important to Car manufacturers, or at least doing well in it.

I believe that Tesla captures incredible momentum in the 3rd and 4th quarter of 2018. In the US specifically, the ability for people to actually test drive the product, and get one inside of 2 weeks is HUGE. "Joe / Jane car shopper" does not want to order a car, and is not going to buy a car sight unseen. Ordering cars and buying cars sight unseen is for enthusiast type people (like you find on forums). As I said in another thread, forums represent a small fraction of buyers. A VERY vocal one, but a small one.

The more teslas there are on the road, the more "joe / jane car buyer" will think its "ok" to consider a tesla. Many people do not want to "take a chance" on a purchase as large as a car. They want an established brand, that doesnt cause them problems getting to work. They also want validation from "others"... as in seeing them on the road means that "it must be OK to look at them because john down the street got one..."

I believe that tesla has reached that point, and has also done something extremely hard to do, which is present itself as a "premium" product. It normally takes a LONG time for people to buy into the "premiumness" of a brand, and the US specifically is VERY brand conscious when it comes to cars. See Toyota / Lexus, Nissan / Infinity, Honda / Accura, Hyundai / Genesis. US consumers like their car brands to say something about themselves.

Normally when someone says this, people on forums say "I dont care about the brand, etc" but as I said, forum members represent a small fraction of buyers. There are TONS of buyers who buy a BMW or a Mercedes, lowest trim, just to get the logo because "they want to drive a BMW / Mercedes".

Tesla has managed to get their cars into that discussion among Joe / Jane buyer. I have been driving BMWs for around 14 years now, and have worked at my current job for 13 years. The last 6 I have driven a BMW 335 and then a BMW 435 to work. When I showed up in my Tesla, as I was passing through the entry gate to work, I was passing a director who was leaving for the day. She saw my car and said " WoW!! Niiiiccccee Tesla!!!" and this is a person who saw me come and go in my 435 plenty of times (never saying anything), and was driving a Mercedes E class.

Anyway, back on thread topic.

Next year I think we will see:

1. A refresh of the Model S, with something to present more visual differentiation from the Model 3, and lessons learned from Model 3.
2. Price cuts / incentives to cover most / all of the Tax rebate loss, starting in feb /march
3. Continuous tinkering with the UI, both adding and taking away features, to the consternation of people on forums but no one else
4. Increased speed for the Model 3 P via software update.
5. Continued ability of tesla to deliver "ordered" cars in <2 weeks
6. Continued momentum of "other brands" to the "threat" that is tesla and EVs in general, with increased focus by them and a huge push to get them out.
7. Continued push toward a unified Fast charging standard in the US.
8. Introduction of the "35K" model 3 in the third quarter of 2019, with it actually being 38.75 to get to the 35k including the tax credit.
9. 35k version NOT including all the same external hardware sensors, as a few others have said, but made so that it could be retrofitted in.
10. Hype around Model Y, near the end of the year, with current model 3 owners upset about X or Y feature that is new in the model y but not in the model 3, just like has happened with model 3 and model S/X owners.
 
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I wouldn't be so sure that $3750 will hold. US lawmakers as of today are in the position of subsidizing foreign automakers but not the largest American EV maker. By the middle of this year, they will be subsidizing solely foreign automakers as GM enters the phase-out period.

That's... Well, let's just say it's not a great look politically, regardless of where on the political spectrum you fall.

It's certainly possible that nothing changes, but I think it's at least as likely that we see a change to the law before the end of the year--either a change to a date-based phase-out across all manufacturers or the law ended soon.
 
I wouldn't be so sure that $3750 will hold. US lawmakers as of today are in the position of subsidizing foreign automakers but not the largest American EV maker. By the middle of this year, they will be subsidizing solely foreign automakers as GM enters the phase-out period.

That's... Well, let's just say it's not a great look politically, regardless of where on the political spectrum you fall.

It's certainly possible that nothing changes, but I think it's at least as likely that we see a change to the law before the end of the year--either a change to a date-based phase-out across all manufacturers or the law ended soon.
This is a really great point, given the nationalistic tone from the GOP/White House. Will be interesting to see whether the Democratic House can curtail any momentum to kill the tax credits. All that said, it is a shame that Elon/Trump couldn't end up aligned on things, since Tesla is such a terrific "Made in America" story. If you'd have told me just a few years ago that the best vehicle I'd ever buy would be American I would have confidently laughed in your face.
 
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One, and only one, thing needs to happen to blow the doors open in 2019 ...

Leasing.

A huge percentage of traditional premium cars are leased; BMW is approaching 60% in the US.

https://dealers.edmunds.com/static/assets/articles/lease-report-jan-2017.pdf

I’m in exactly this boat myself; I’ve got a Cadillac XT5 in the driveway whose lease expires this coming October.

I’m hoping beyond hope that Model 3 leasing opens up in the 1st half of 2019; if I can get my hands on a leased M3 before end of June, that’s my plan.

If leasing were an option on the M3, there’d be one in my driveway now. The $3750 in tax credit loss from Dec-Jan would’ve equated to ~6 months of lease payments. Hopefully leasing is available before end of June - the reduction from $3750 to $1875 is about 3 months’ worth of payments and so would just about net out to when I have to turn in the Caddy if I get the timing right.

I’m still not 100% convinced that I want to get out of an SUV and go back to a sedan, but the M3 is so compelling .... my wife drives a Buick Enclave, so we have a large vehicle in the household. I think we’ll be OK with “only” one SUV.

But my point is simply - turning on M3 leasing opens up a HUGE segment of the premium car market. Just huge.
 
"Joe / Jane car shopper" does not want to order a car,
I hear you, but I'm not sure that I agree in the case of Tesla.
I feel like a lot of the Tesla brand value has to do with scarcity, both perceived and real.
People seem to be enjoying the romantic notion that they can order in a few clicks on their phone, and then some magicians in Fremont get to work painting metal blue, installing white seats, and so forth. This notion is so fundamentally different from any car buying experience any living American has ever enjoyed, particularly in the Model 3 price point where custom ordering of a BMW or Porsche just isn't a thing. No walking a dealer lot, wishing your new car hadn't been enjoying acid rain on its paint for weeks or months, no haggling with a dealer over the purchase price, the dealer add-ons, the financing, the trade-in. Instead, it's click click click, wait impatiently like a kid on Christmas Eve, and then enjoy the five minutes of signing a few sheets of paper before driving away in The Future.

A material part of that magic is lost if the order can happen and the car is already on the lot, or moved to the lot from a nearby regional lot within a few days. Further, this is directly opposed to Elon's recent commentary where he's been schooled by Deepak on every day a car is finished yet not delivered is a $70 million working capital upside opportunity. That fact lends itself to continued just-in-time production objectives in Fremont (with inventory building purely to fill lulls in order volume, as we see with S/X as well as with Model 3 LR RWD back at the end of Q2 heading into Q3...just prior to the surprise introduction of MR to drive more demand given the sated demand for NA LR RWD at that time).
 
I’m in exactly this boat myself; I’ve got a Cadillac XT5 in the driveway whose lease expires this coming October.

But my point is simply - turning on M3 leasing opens up a HUGE segment of the premium car market. Just huge.

I hate to reply to myself, but I don’t see to have edit-button privileges yet... What I wanted to add is that leasing is make-or-break for me vis-a-vie Tesla. If I can’t lease a M3, I’ll likely end up in another Cadillac. With the rapidity of iteration on vehicles now, I don’t want the long term commitment. I’d rather refresh every 36-39 months.

(And before you say “why Cadillac?” - very simply... I’m only interested in considering American manufacturers. And of those, I think Cadillac - by far - has the most innovation in the traditional vehicle space. In fact, there’s a bunch of features in the XT5 that I’d be giving up for Tesla. 360-degree cameras, rearview mirror cam, heads-up display, auto-wipers that work, heated steering wheel, satellite radio (not innovative but nice to have) - are all things I’d be giving up... I’ll make those sacrifices for a lease, but sure as heck wouldn’t do so for a purchase.
 
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OP, Agreed w/ 1thru 8 but

9. 35k version NOT including all the same external hardware sensors, as a few others have said, but made so that it could be retrofitted in.
Elon claimed it would not be stripped down and 35K b/f any tax credits

10. Hype around Model Y, near the end of the year, with current model 3 owners upset about X or Y feature that is new in the model y but not in the model 3, just like has happened with model 3 and model S/X owners.

Agreed, e.g 3.0 AP, 3 rows will be standard in the MY.
 
I hate to reply to myself, but I don’t see to have edit-button privileges yet... What I wanted to add is that leasing is make-or-break for me vis-a-vie Tesla. If I can’t lease a M3, I’ll likely end up in another Cadillac. With the rapidity of iteration on vehicles now, I don’t want the long term commitment. I’d rather refresh every 36-39 months.

(And before you say “why Cadillac?” - very simply... I’m only interested in considering American manufacturers. And of those, I think Cadillac - by far - has the most innovation in the traditional vehicle space. In fact, there’s a bunch of features in the XT5 that I’d be giving up for Tesla. 360-degree cameras, rearview mirror cam, heads-up display, auto-wipers that work, heated steering wheel, satellite radio (not innovative but nice to have) - are all things I’d be giving up... I’ll make those sacrifices for a lease, but sure as heck wouldn’t do so for a purchase.
So you're saying that the super weird Matthew McConahay (sp) Lincoln ads have not swayed you from Caddy?!
So bizarre. I didn't even know Lincoln still existed. I guess they killed off Mercury in the recession, but kept Lincoln around.

Leasing for Model 3 is surely coming. It's up to Deepak to arrange the financing lines for it, since Tesla can't really afford to fund a bunch of Model 3 leases on their own balance sheet. I suspect it is close though; we should see Model 3 leasing before we see SR arrive since leasing the higher priced models helps Tesla maintain ASPs/GM%s as long as possible before SR starts to dampen them.
 
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So you're saying that the super weird Matthew McConahay (sp) Lincoln ads have not swayed you from Caddy?!
So bizarre. I didn't even know Lincoln still existed. I guess they killed off Mercury in the recession, but kept Lincoln around.

Leasing for Model 3 is surely coming. It's up to Deepak to arrange the financing lines for it, since Tesla can't really afford to fund a bunch of Model 3 leases on their own balance sheet. I suspect it is close though; we should see Model 3 leasing before we see SR arrive since leasing the higher priced models helps Tesla maintain ASPs/GM%s as long as possible before SR starts to dampen them.

Ha! No, actually, all of the time I spend driving rental Lincolns haven’t swayed me. I’m still always happy when I get home and get in my Caddy. It’s a great ride, with plenty of forward tech. I’m expecting the 2020 XT5 (my midsize SUV) to add Super Cruise as part of its refresh - that makes the decision point to stay or go with an M3 even more difficult... but I still think the appeal of all-electric is what wins the day. If I could ask Elon to add a few things for me to the M3, it’d be the heated steering wheel (us East Coasters love it!), and the 360 camera. The HUD and rearview mirror cam are cool but I can live without. Satellite radio would be nice but I can stream that.

Heated steering wheel is one of those things that I REALLY don’t want to go without. Sounds silly but trust me, once you have it in 5 degree weather, you never want to give it up.

As for leasing - I’d be perfectly OK to see SR go by the wayside altogether; honestly, the MR is the sweet spot in my book. It’s got plenty of range, plenty of tech, plenty of everything. I don’t need more max speed; I’m not driving at the track. It’s a car for a work-a-day family guy like me... and for this, the MR is perfect. Given the ATP across the entire car industry has been rising at such a dramatic rate, I don’t know that 35k is such an important barrier to acceptance anymore. At this point, I think it’s just a “Elon’s a liar” point that the shorts are using, more than any actual barrier to sales .....

Average New-Car Prices Rise Nearly 4 Percent For January 2018 On Shifting Sales Mix, According To Kelley Blue Book
 
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If the leasing option was available when I ordered my Model 3, this is the route I would have taken. It seems technology is improving so rapidly, that new or updated features, can justify upgrading to a newer model or manufacturer. Back in 2012, when we got the Nissan Leaf with its 80 mile range, a car with a theoretical range of 310 miles seemed crazy.
 
If the leasing option was available when I ordered my Model 3, this is the route I would have taken. It seems technology is improving so rapidly, that new or updated features, can justify upgrading to a newer model or manufacturer. Back in 2012, when we got the Nissan Leaf with its 80 mile range, a car with a theoretical range of 310 miles seemed crazy.

My feeling completely. Times were, keeping a vehicle 8-10 years was perfectly reasonable. Now, they iterate and improve so rapidly, a 10 year old vehicle feels like a complete antique.

Hard to believe that only 6 years ago, the 80-mile Leaf was top of the line for electric vehicles. Here we are at 300+ mile range, which is right in line with ICE. We’re there - at the point where there are no downsides to electric drive for the average driver. For me, I never, ever go anywhere over 200 miles in one trip. Ever. If I do, it’d be in my wife’s Enclave anyway, because the likelihood is that we’re hauling either more people or more stuff.

So I’m pretty much the ideal candidate for a Model 3.... thing is, I don’t want to buy one today and be driving the same Model 3 in 2027. They’re changing too rapidly for that.

Leasing or bust!
 
OP, Agreed w/ 1thru 8 but

9. 35k version NOT including all the same external hardware sensors, as a few others have said, but made so that it could be retrofitted in.
Elon claimed it would not be stripped down and 35K b/f any tax credits

10. Hype around Model Y, near the end of the year, with current model 3 owners upset about X or Y feature that is new in the model y but not in the model 3, just like has happened with model 3 and model S/X owners.

Agreed, e.g 3.0 AP, 3 rows will be standard in the MY.

Appreciate the feedback, but I was not the OP of the thread. @MarkBrokeIt is the OP.

On point 9, that you listed, I know what was said, but agree with @MXWing that the uptake on Enhanced autopilot in a "base 35k" tesla is going to be very low. I think that it would make a lot of sense for tesla to ship a "cheaper" computer etc, and only install the sensors needed for the included safety features, and those that would be very difficult to add later (maybe B pillar camera sensors?). If someone buys EAP on a "Standard" Model 3, then install the replacement bumper / sensors / computer for that.

Its a lot different spending 5k on a 70k vehicle, than it is on a 35k vehicle. The only other way that all the sensors stay in there is that they manage to reduce the cost of the car enough to cover putting it in there when the uptake rate is very low. Maybe battery tech advancements allow them to do so?

As for leasing, if it was available on the model 3 I likely would have leased... but I also wanted to get off the "lease merry go round" after 3 straight 3 year leases of various BMWs for both myself AND my wife. Interest rates are going up, not sure where they going in the future, and not wanting to pay $150 more for the same basic car lead me to look at other options.

One thing that made it "ok" for me to consider buying the model 3 vs leasing it was the software updates and computer upgrades that tesla is able to do. I suspect that Model 3s will have longer range in 5-6 years than now, with faster computers and a different OS... but I also suspect that I could get tesla to put in a new battery pack, and new computer so that I could run the latest software.

The car not being "set" as delivered was a HUGE reason in why I was ok with buying it vs leasing it. The downside of leasing for tesla is that they dont have dealerships so have to deal with trying to sell CPO vehicles themselves, and they dont seem to be very good at it from what I read.
 
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As for leasing, if it was available on the model 3 I likely would have leased... but I also wanted to get off the "lease merry go round" after 3 straight 3 year leases of various BMWs for both myself AND my wife. Interest rates are going up, not sure where they going in the future, and not wanting to pay $150 more for the same basic car lead me to look at other options.

One thing that made it "ok" for me to consider buying the model 3 vs leasing it was the software updates and computer upgrades that tesla is able to do. I suspect that Model 3s will have longer range in 5-6 years than now, with faster computers and a different OS... but I also suspect that I could get tesla to put in a new battery pack, and new computer so that I could run the latest software.

The car not being "set" as delivered was a HUGE reason in why I was ok with buying it vs leasing it. The downside of leasing for tesla is that they dont have dealerships so have to deal with trying to sell CPO vehicles themselves, and they dont seem to be very good at it from what I read.

Unless you get an extraordinary deal, or have a tax structure you can arbitrage , Tesla leases don’t make sense in my opinion.

For the same amount of money, you can either own two Tesla’s outright over a 9 year period or lease 3 with nothing to show for in the end .

Leases from any other auto like my Volt is heavily subsidized - both vehicle and financing. No money down, low monthly payments made those a no brainer. Tesla is heavy down payment, high monthly payments at high interest.

There are people who disagree with me but I don’t expect the Model 3 to get obsolete as quickly as the S and X does.

Model 3 owners showed more outrage as an aggregete from increased paint prices than AP1 owners when AP2 air-dropped.

Adding air suspension is not a bad deal. Having non upgradable HW would have forced Musk to close his twitter.

I had a chance to take delivery before the Q2 conference call, I deferred.

Couple years in Tesla ownership teaches you how to mitigate risks.