This is how it will work but you have to be very careful here. If this car veers to the right or left and leaves its lane than your Tesla will follow it and also leave its lane.
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What does Autopilot do, and what it doesn't? When will it not be "Beta"?
- Thread starter jsollender
- Start date
but that wont work on a non-painted residential street as far as I understand...
Now I need to have my city planners paint all streets...
Now I need to have my city planners paint all streets...
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Not quite true. Good lane lines or a car to follow are required to engage autopilot. However, if these are lost, and AP can still determine a safe driving path, it will continue to follow the road. Of course, when this happens, I am watching its behavior very closely. But so far I am impressed.
Softwizard
Member
Did anyone notice that Autosteer won't go over speed limit with the latest update? I used to be able to set the speed to whatever I wanted, but now it is limited to 5 mph over the last speed limit sign the MX saw
That's an official design feature for the new release - for non divided surface streets only, in theory.
That's correct - it limits the speed you can engage on secondary roads - but on highways/interstates you can still set it at whatever speed you want.
In aircraft, some versions can do full autoland, including zero visibility taxi to gate. That certification, called category III C, requires aircraft, crew and airport certification plus regular recurrent testing and recertification. It is VERY expensive so is used in very rare situations.
The other extreme in autopilots, analogous to Tesla autopilot beta, will fly straight and level, following navigation directions in the air but not for approaches.
The IIIC idea is much like Google cars today. It can only be used in pre-certified situations, with thick data on specific routes and is expensive to build, operate and maintain.
The straight and level analogy, for Tesla, is quite easy to use, saves stress and boredom, but NEVER can be trusted to act independently. In Silicon Valley terms, Beta.
Seems to me the aircraft analogy is apt. We should expect nothing close to full autonomy until/unless technology and processing logic have advanced far beyond their current state.
FWIW, I'm thrilled with my Tesla autopilot, and I'm not expecting major advances anytime soon. I am expecting significant advance making current functions work better, but nothing remotely close to IIIC without analogous high cost, maintenance and training intensity.
FarmerDave
Member
Less work for Tesla Autopilot. Doesn't have to concern itself with height.
Although the air questions are all pre-defined, for IFR. In cars there is much less regimented behavior and vastly less training, not to mention much lower position control on the ground.
In a seminar dealing with cat III some time ago there were a couple MobileEye engineers and a couple Google people too.
In aircraft the higher the precision desired the greater the data intensity, training and equipment. Thus Aircraft fit the data intense model, as does Google. That means routes will be limited to high data routes.
The Tesla model is far lower in data intensity so will not have level 4 automation until data dramatically improves.
This is really exciting to experience, isn't it?
In a seminar dealing with cat III some time ago there were a couple MobileEye engineers and a couple Google people too.
In aircraft the higher the precision desired the greater the data intensity, training and equipment. Thus Aircraft fit the data intense model, as does Google. That means routes will be limited to high data routes.
The Tesla model is far lower in data intensity so will not have level 4 automation until data dramatically improves.
This is really exciting to experience, isn't it?
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Not to get off topic, but I was unaware any airlines were certified for cat IIIC operations. In my previous life my airline was certified for cat IIIA with the addition of a 50' DH. It was my understanding that most airlines operated somewhere in this range, and that IIIC was an aspirational goal but that it was not in use.
The whole "Autopilot" thing (what's working, what's coming) is quite interesting, and aviation analogies are very relevant.
Staying between the lines and not overtaking the vehicle ahead is a great first step.
Having lanes on the road is, in some ways simpler than aviation - and current capabilities of auto steer seem to solve a situation where vehicles are going opposite direction a few feet apart at a closing speed of well over 100 mph.
Even the aviation versions (the more basic, as well as the Cat IIIC) don't care about other aircraft. That's still the role of ATC.
There are other aviation systems (TCAS) that are designed to prevent collisions -- and the units communicate with each other so that each aircraft's actions are coordinated (ie. one aircraft is told to climb and another to descend).
True autopilot will eventually require some sort of vehicle-to-vehicle coordination - think merging. It'll be much more efficient if the vehicles communicate with each other so that each vehicle automatically speeds up or slows down incrementally for the "greater good". So there will need to be some standard that all Autopilot manufacturers agree on and adopt.
Staying between the lines and not overtaking the vehicle ahead is a great first step.
Having lanes on the road is, in some ways simpler than aviation - and current capabilities of auto steer seem to solve a situation where vehicles are going opposite direction a few feet apart at a closing speed of well over 100 mph.
Even the aviation versions (the more basic, as well as the Cat IIIC) don't care about other aircraft. That's still the role of ATC.
There are other aviation systems (TCAS) that are designed to prevent collisions -- and the units communicate with each other so that each aircraft's actions are coordinated (ie. one aircraft is told to climb and another to descend).
True autopilot will eventually require some sort of vehicle-to-vehicle coordination - think merging. It'll be much more efficient if the vehicles communicate with each other so that each vehicle automatically speeds up or slows down incrementally for the "greater good". So there will need to be some standard that all Autopilot manufacturers agree on and adopt.
IIIC is very rare but it is in service on LHR Rey 27R. The plates are not distributed unless the runway, airport, taxi, aircraft, airline and crew all all current on the specific approach. If I recall correctly LHR was the first, in 2009. Qantas and BA both do IIIC there. There may be others elsewhere by now.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
I am still very curious to know how much aircraft technology, especially sensors, has been being used by MobilEye, Google and Tesla. Undoubtably auto technology must be vastly higher quality in use of "thin" data to apply generally, although I personally think there is a distinct market also for ""Google-style" local thick-data autonomous services including local taxi, bus, garbage trucks and so on. Almost by definition Tesla is skewed to long distance travel, so full autonomous driving probably is a long time coming for them.
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
I live on an island. It is about five miles from the bridge to my house. There are no traffic lights or stop signs on the way. Autopilot works great other than the road is only 10 feet wide and the car drives to to the right further than I like as there is no shoulder.
I have found issues with the active avoidance. I have read the manual many time about "lane keep" and "blind spot" warning but as of yet neither works. It is clear for them to work you shouldn't be using autopilot. There can be a car to my right and there is no indication that they are there. I can also cross over the line and there is no indication it has happened. I have driven in cars that either have a flashing light in the mirror, vibrating steering wheel or audible noise but none of these happen on the Model. I asked the service center to show me how it works and they didn't know. It has been at the service center for the last week to resolve the issue.
I have found issues with the active avoidance. I have read the manual many time about "lane keep" and "blind spot" warning but as of yet neither works. It is clear for them to work you shouldn't be using autopilot. There can be a car to my right and there is no indication that they are there. I can also cross over the line and there is no indication it has happened. I have driven in cars that either have a flashing light in the mirror, vibrating steering wheel or audible noise but none of these happen on the Model. I asked the service center to show me how it works and they didn't know. It has been at the service center for the last week to resolve the issue.
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