What does "ignore" mean in 8.0?

[Hengist]

Just from watching BLKTSLA's demonstration video where he lets the system reach the "failed" point, it looks like an "ignore event" is defined by having reached the point of audible notification. This makes sense since there is an escalation of attempts to get the driver's attention leading up to the chime.

This means that the behavior being rewarded is paying attention to the driver display. I would rather be incentivized to pay attention to the road. We will someday get accident reports because driver was heads down looking for alerts instead of heads up looking for lane intrusions, road debris, and things like restriped lanes.

 

[brucet999]

This means that the behavior being rewarded is paying attention to the driver display. I would rather be incentivized to pay attention to the road. We will someday get accident reports because driver was heads down looking for alerts instead of heads up looking for lane intrusions, road debris, and things like restriped lanes.

My guess is that the flashing white border of the instrument cluster display will easily attract attention of drivers' peripheral vision without having to consciously monitor it.

 

[LetsGoFast]

My guess is that the flashing white border of the instrument cluster display will easily attract attention of drivers' peripheral vision without having to consciously monitor it.

Yes. I find it quite quite difficult to miss the flashing display.

 

[Az_Rael]

Fellow over on Reddit tested the AP ignore rules. He found that the 3rd time you hit the audible alarm in 1 hour, you are done. He did dismiss the audible alarm each time, so those counted against him. Just thought i would add this data point.

PSA: AutoPilot turns off after three AUDIBLE warnings • /r/teslamotors

"This is 3 audible alarms within an hour for distinct events. I responded to the audible nag each time almost immediately and 3 minutes later waited until it got to the 'beeping'. After the 3rd audible alarm, autosteer was disabled for the duration of the drive (disabled after I touched the wheel)."

 

[KublaConn]

This means that the behavior being rewarded is paying attention to the driver display. I would rather be incentivized to pay attention to the road. We will someday get accident reports because driver was heads down looking for alerts instead of heads up looking for lane intrusions, road debris, and things like restriped lanes.

I believe just the opposite is true, if you are paying attention to the road, you are looking forward, and the instrument display is well within your vision if you are indeed forward-focused, unless you have extreme tunnelvision and, in that case, you're a danger on the road from the get-go. The instrument panel is specifically located so that you can safely monitor your vehicle's performance while driving, so if you are missing the bright white flashing lights in your instrument display you are most likely NOT paying attention to the road ahead of you. If the instrument display isn't a good place for them to locate a visual cue, absent a virtual, heads-up display integrated into your front windshield, where would you propose as a more appropriate place for it to be located? It's also important to remember that these warnings are only supposed to pop up if it can't sense tactile control of the steering wheel, so if you keep your hand on the wheel it won't be a problem, or are you saying that, in the interest of safe motoring, you prefer to vigilantly scan ahead, not even daring to take your eyes off the road to glance down at your instrument panel, but at the same time you prefer to not have your hands on the steering wheel for extended lengths of time?

 

[Jevi_S85D]

The warning says: Keep your hands on the wheel.
If you don't you are ignoring this warning and you will get a nag and have to apply torque.
Taking your hands off the wheel you are again ignoring the warning.
Simple as that

 

[Hengist]

The warning says: Keep your hands on the wheel.
If you don't you are ignoring this warning and you will get a nag and have to apply torque.
Taking your hands off the wheel you are again ignoring the warning.
Simple as that

Keeping your hands on the wheel does not prevent warnings. Simple as that.

The wheel does not sense that your hands are on it. It senses force from your hands against the wheel. Apply too much force and you are suddenly steering the car. Apply too little and the car, falsely, thinks you are not 'holding' the wheel and are 'ignoring' warnings.

 

[chillaban]

Keeping your hands on the wheel does not prevent warnings. Simple as that.

The wheel does not sense that your hands are on it. It senses force from your hands against the wheel. Apply too much force and you are suddenly steering the car. Apply too little and the car, falsely, thinks you are not 'holding' the wheel and are 'ignoring' warnings.

10,000 miles into my Model S over a 2 month period, I disagree. The torque sensing is very sensitive and only requires any touch that opposes the steering torque to reset the timer back to 1, 3, or 5 minutes depending on the driving scenarios. You don't need to death grip the wheel, just a mild nudge of the wheel to one direction or the other for 1-2 seconds on a straight road, or just hold the wheel as the car turns it around curves.

The disengagement torque is substantially stronger than the necessary torque to convince the car you are holding the wheel.

 

[Hengist]

10,000 miles into my Model S over a 2 month period, I disagree. The torque sensing is very sensitive and only requires any touch that opposes the steering torque to reset the timer back to 1, 3, or 5 minutes depending on the driving scenarios. You don't need to death grip the wheel, just a mild nudge of the wheel to one direction or the other for 1-2 seconds on a straight road, or just hold the wheel as the car turns it around curves.

The disengagement torque is substantially stronger than the necessary torque to convince the car you are holding the wheel.

Many other people, me included do not share your experience.

 

[Wanderer]

10,000 miles into my Model S over a 2 month period, I disagree. The torque sensing is very sensitive and only requires any touch that opposes the steering torque to reset the timer back to 1, 3, or 5 minutes depending on the driving scenarios. You don't need to death grip the wheel, just a mild nudge of the wheel to one direction or the other for 1-2 seconds on a straight road, or just hold the wheel as the car turns it around curves.

The disengagement torque is substantially stronger than the necessary torque to convince the car you are holding the wheel.

I do not find the torque sensing that sensitive. I frequently find it hard to convince the car that I have my hands on the steering wheel, even when I am explicitly trying to let t he car know I am there because a warning showed up. It is quite common for me to get an audible warning on 7.1 even when I have my hands on the steering wheel.

The last couple of days I have been trying to keep at least one hand loosely on the bottom of the wheel as I only recently learned that torque, and not pressure, was used to detect whether I was holding the steering wheel. That made it a bit better, but I am still getting audible warnings at times. I also find that having my hands loosely on the bottom of the steering wheel makes me less responsive when I do need to intervene. I am much faster grabbing the wheel and taking control when I have my hands in my lap than when I have them in an awkward position at the bottom of the steering wheel just to create torque. Putting my hands on the top of the steering wheel seems to defeat the purpose of AP.

 

[Chopr147]

When I first got my S I would loosely hold the bottom of the wheel and still get nags. I would squeeze the wheel to get rid of the nag and it did NOT work. I learned a little torque or slight "fighting" of the wheel is what's needed

 

[Hengist]

So many people on 7.1 get audible alerts when they have had their hands on the wheel. They will now be punished for "ignoring" alerts. The only saving factor is that the visual alert is more prominent. But the real unsaid thing is that the detection of your hands on the wheel is very poor for many people.

Tesla has been inaccurate in responses to crash cases when they imply that a driver ignored alerts or did not hold the wheel since the means Tesla uses to determine if the wheel is held is not accurate and reliable.

 

[Jevi_S85D]

Actually you could be right. I know nothing about the torque sensor but it is very likely that its sensisitivity could vary between cars.
I'd suggest you talk to your service center about it. They may be able to adjust it as it is probably some sort of current measurement.

 

[chillaban]

When I first got my S I would loosely hold the bottom of the wheel and still get nags. I would squeeze the wheel to get rid of the nag and it did NOT work. I learned a little torque or slight "fighting" of the wheel is what's needed

That's exactly correct. It's not the gripping of the wheel that works, and it's unlikely to work especially on straight roads. You want to periodically nudge the wheel and fight it a little. The car also seems to reject "angry shakes" of the wheel as noise. If you get the alert, gently push the wheel to one side or the other with steady force and hold it there for a second or two.

If the car is actively steering, resting your hands on the wheel is more than enough to register input.

 

[Hengist]

If the car is actively steering, resting your hands on the wheel is more than enough to register input.

Maybe I need to post video examples that show this not to be true in 7.1. Since I traded my S on an X, I'm still weeks away from 8.0. But I've been driving autopilot S cars since the first release of 7.0.

Tesla is using a very flawed way to determine that hands are on the wheel. It's got unacceptably many false positives that hands are not present when they, in fact, are present. This did not matter much in 7.0, as there was no adverse consequence of a false positive. But in 8.0 there is a deliberate disabling of a safety feature of the car when three false positives occur in an hour.

Blaming the driver for the cars inability to correctly sense presence of hands is not appropriate. A correct sensor, such as a capacitative touch sensor would be much more useful.

 

[cynix]

Maybe I need to post video examples that show this not to be true in 7.1

I do not recall a single instance where it fails to sense a light touch of the steering wheel. Perhaps there's a calibration problem with individual cars that need to be fixed?