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What exactly is the 1146 Alert?
- Thread starter gregd
- Start date
Hi folks, an update...
So the connector was replaced, and I find out now that the pins themselves were viewed as "in perfect condition" so were not replaced. The 1146 errors are still present, and by some measures, are getting worse. There were over a hundred in a frantic burst during a recent charging session.
I took the car back to the SC on Monday, with the plan to work out what to do with the tech. But the tech was up to his elbows in another car, and couldn't be pulled off long enough to talk to me. Ended up leaving the car for analysis. They pulled the logs (OVMS notification
), said they huddled with folks back in the factory. Got the car back the next day. Analysis: they recommend a new fan motor. $998.00, out the door.
I'm not convinced.
They put everything back together, and I had hoped that simply re-seating the PEM Fan connector would change the behavior, but it did not appear to. The errors are still there, and gut feel, at about the same rate. So, perhaps they are right and the motor is failing. But I also wonder if simply one of the pins is really shot, in which case re-seating things won't do any good. Perhaps the damage wasn't visible.
The motor will be in some time next week. In the mean time, my plan is to take a recent log and apply @petergrub magic decoder instructions (Alert #1146 Returns! {sigh}) to see if I can figure out what's going on. (Peter, did you ever finish a software decoder for these?)
Some of the symptoms just aren't adding up. Any insight from these?
1. Why when I was first driving home after the initial service, unknowingly with the duct not attached to the PEM and the PEM running extremely hot, did I not get any errors? No 1146's, nothing (other than the power limited messages in the cabin). The errors started the next day, after everything had cooled off. Why then? Did that event, which surely was a max-current situation, damage either the connector or the motor or both?
2. The fan motor sounds normal, and the PEM and Motor temps seem about right. The errors often happen at random times, except for one charging session where they were like clockwork, every 10 minutes, roughly coinciding with the A/C battery cooling cycles. What is the connection?
3. At one point, the 1146's were often reported about a minute after a charging session had ended. Seems like an odd time for that. Low stress, everything winding down. Why then?
4. The frantic bursts, where a large number of alerts are logged in a short period of time do not suggest a mechanical issue (too much inertia). To me, that says "electrical connection". Yes?
5. And finally, we never did answer my initial question... What exactly is the 1146 alert reporting?
So, bottom line, considering the above, do you believe the "need a new motor" diagnosis? They really didn't seem convinced themselves, and certainly haven't convinced me.
Thanks!
So the connector was replaced, and I find out now that the pins themselves were viewed as "in perfect condition" so were not replaced. The 1146 errors are still present, and by some measures, are getting worse. There were over a hundred in a frantic burst during a recent charging session.
I took the car back to the SC on Monday, with the plan to work out what to do with the tech. But the tech was up to his elbows in another car, and couldn't be pulled off long enough to talk to me. Ended up leaving the car for analysis. They pulled the logs (OVMS notification
), said they huddled with folks back in the factory. Got the car back the next day. Analysis: they recommend a new fan motor. $998.00, out the door.I'm not convinced.
They put everything back together, and I had hoped that simply re-seating the PEM Fan connector would change the behavior, but it did not appear to. The errors are still there, and gut feel, at about the same rate. So, perhaps they are right and the motor is failing. But I also wonder if simply one of the pins is really shot, in which case re-seating things won't do any good. Perhaps the damage wasn't visible.
The motor will be in some time next week. In the mean time, my plan is to take a recent log and apply @petergrub magic decoder instructions (Alert #1146 Returns! {sigh}) to see if I can figure out what's going on. (Peter, did you ever finish a software decoder for these?)
Some of the symptoms just aren't adding up. Any insight from these?
1. Why when I was first driving home after the initial service, unknowingly with the duct not attached to the PEM and the PEM running extremely hot, did I not get any errors? No 1146's, nothing (other than the power limited messages in the cabin). The errors started the next day, after everything had cooled off. Why then? Did that event, which surely was a max-current situation, damage either the connector or the motor or both?
2. The fan motor sounds normal, and the PEM and Motor temps seem about right. The errors often happen at random times, except for one charging session where they were like clockwork, every 10 minutes, roughly coinciding with the A/C battery cooling cycles. What is the connection?
3. At one point, the 1146's were often reported about a minute after a charging session had ended. Seems like an odd time for that. Low stress, everything winding down. Why then?
4. The frantic bursts, where a large number of alerts are logged in a short period of time do not suggest a mechanical issue (too much inertia). To me, that says "electrical connection". Yes?
5. And finally, we never did answer my initial question... What exactly is the 1146 alert reporting?
So, bottom line, considering the above, do you believe the "need a new motor" diagnosis? They really didn't seem convinced themselves, and certainly haven't convinced me.
Thanks!
I’m pretty confident 1146/1144 errors are due to the electric to the fans being out of spec. This could be due to faulty connectors, faulty fan motor and even debris keeping the fan from turning freely. If the pins are indeed “perfect” then it will be interesting to see how you fair with a new fan. Personally, I prefer to do this repair myself as I have found the SC doesn’t pay attention to details but prefers to install new ($$$) parts until you run out of money or the problem goes away. Just my opinion. I am 3 years with no 1144/1146 errors after replacing the connector AND pins inside the PEM. Also I am on my same fan for 7 years after the working original was replaced with the upgraded fan. Good luck, keep us posted.
So, here's what a drive plus charging session's worth of the 1146 alerts data decode to. Anybody see anything wrong with it?
This covers a 40 minute drive, followed immediately by a 2hr 13 minute 24 amp charge. The first error occurred only 50 seconds into the drive, and was during a slow drive along a gravel country road. Not exactly stressful. Ambient temps in the 50's, with some scattered light rain at times during the day (so roads were wet). The charging was done in an enclosed garage, with temps in the 60's.
Frankly, I'm not seeing anything that stands out as odd, but these are the samples that the car thinks are out of range, somehow. I can't correlate the errors during the drive, but during charge the car is just sitting there in the garage, so no spikes in current with acceleration or the like.
Again, bottom line, do I let them burn $1k of my money with a new fan motor, or is there evidence there that it's the connector? That the errors don't necessarily follow load suggests that perhaps it is the motor, with either the bearings drying up, or the brushes worn out. Does that make sense?
This covers a 40 minute drive, followed immediately by a 2hr 13 minute 24 amp charge. The first error occurred only 50 seconds into the drive, and was during a slow drive along a gravel country road. Not exactly stressful. Ambient temps in the 50's, with some scattered light rain at times during the day (so roads were wet). The charging was done in an enclosed garage, with temps in the 60's.
Frankly, I'm not seeing anything that stands out as odd, but these are the samples that the car thinks are out of range, somehow. I can't correlate the errors during the drive, but during charge the car is just sitting there in the garage, so no spikes in current with acceleration or the like.
Again, bottom line, do I let them burn $1k of my money with a new fan motor, or is there evidence there that it's the connector? That the errors don't necessarily follow load suggests that perhaps it is the motor, with either the bearings drying up, or the brushes worn out. Does that make sense?
Thanks, PV-EV. I'm kind of tempted to ask them to do the pin replacement first, just to prove that it really is the motor, but the pins were replaced (both the PEM and cable) back in 2015, so not that old. And there have been a few groups of 1146's in between, and even before when I look back in the logs. I don't recall if we messed with the pins since '15 (vague recollection of a "wiring change"). The only really quiet period was from 4/17 through 8/18, then they started up again.
So, it's been an off-again but mostly on-again issue. Either the connector is really that bad, or perhaps the motor really is the root cause of a lot of this, and has been all along?
Oh, and except for one entry during the annual service this year, all of the errors since the 2015 repair have been 1146's. No 1144's to be found.
Yeah, considered it. Looked in there. Seems clean, but can't reach it (maybe with a stick?). How free should it be?
I also figured that it'd be one of the obvious things the SC would test, since they had the car apart (or at least, powered off), and they made no mention of bearings being the issue. I recall a post somewhere about the motor's electrical bushings being a problem, so am thinking perhaps that's the root issue. Seems like a very expensive repair, if so... Worth asking them about, regardless.
Last couple of top-off charges occurred without 1146's, but the weather is cooler. I've got some errands to do early next week, so we'll see if there is a correlation.
dhrivnak
Active Member
hi folks,
i once also had many of those 1144/46 alerts day after day and finally member warden_clyffe modified my PEM/fan connection by replacing the original fan connction terminal as discribed above. now i am very happy with this solid solition and never ever had an alert since then again!
although i am not an eletrician i am sure that just 4 simple luster terminals would perfectly do the same job for less than 3 bucks. ok, you would have to install and lead 4 extra wires then out of the PEM but is there anything better than a screwed connection?
i once also had many of those 1144/46 alerts day after day and finally member warden_clyffe modified my PEM/fan connection by replacing the original fan connction terminal as discribed above. now i am very happy with this solid solition and never ever had an alert since then again!
although i am not an eletrician i am sure that just 4 simple luster terminals would perfectly do the same job for less than 3 bucks. ok, you would have to install and lead 4 extra wires then out of the PEM but is there anything better than a screwed connection?
So an update...
The lack of errors has continued. Can't make it fail anymore, even punching it on the freeway. Driving, charging, whatever, nice warm weather or cold. All Fine Now. No idea why the change in behavior, as I've not messed with any of it. Any thoughts as to why are welcome. I think this is the second time it's happened.
I had an appointment with the SC to replace the fan motor (their recommendation; I'm still not convinced), but have pushed it out a month pending being able to reproduce the error. I have no desire to spend $1k on a part if I can't verify that it actually made a difference. I may have to cancel altogether and release the replacement parts if I can't get the car to misbehave, not that that's a bad thing. Based on history, however, I'm expecting to be back here again in a year...
The lack of errors has continued. Can't make it fail anymore, even punching it on the freeway. Driving, charging, whatever, nice warm weather or cold. All Fine Now. No idea why the change in behavior, as I've not messed with any of it. Any thoughts as to why are welcome. I think this is the second time it's happened.
I had an appointment with the SC to replace the fan motor (their recommendation; I'm still not convinced), but have pushed it out a month pending being able to reproduce the error. I have no desire to spend $1k on a part if I can't verify that it actually made a difference. I may have to cancel altogether and release the replacement parts if I can't get the car to misbehave, not that that's a bad thing. Based on history, however, I'm expecting to be back here again in a year...
warden_clyffe
Member
gregd (...and all others...), sorry i haven't been around, especially with any other detailed pics of the upgrade, but i'm extremely busy those days...
be asured, your problems are connectors plus fan. sorry to say so, but all SeC's i know would tell you either that the pins are ok or want to sell you a remanufactured pem, as they are not allowed to open and fix it (correct me if wrong !).
recently i had a roadster from norway with exactly same issues, pins looked fine inside pem and jack, but i replaced them. i still had some odd 1144 (only, not 1146 in debug) afterwards and fan was perfect by the sound of it - i did install a new one and now everything is 100% fine.
this is not the first time i had roadsters with those errors after two hot european summers, all of them were sorted out with new connectors or/with new pem-fan.
as to upgrade the socket the pem does need to be opened and quite disassambled to reach to the jack. i would rate a d.i.y.-solution on the difficulty- scale to 7.5 out of 10 so i wouldn't recommend this job to amateurs.
if you're fearless please pm me for supervision, if not please contact f.ex. pete gruber for usa/canada etc. (i'm in germany...)
be asured, your problems are connectors plus fan. sorry to say so, but all SeC's i know would tell you either that the pins are ok or want to sell you a remanufactured pem, as they are not allowed to open and fix it (correct me if wrong !).
recently i had a roadster from norway with exactly same issues, pins looked fine inside pem and jack, but i replaced them. i still had some odd 1144 (only, not 1146 in debug) afterwards and fan was perfect by the sound of it - i did install a new one and now everything is 100% fine.
this is not the first time i had roadsters with those errors after two hot european summers, all of them were sorted out with new connectors or/with new pem-fan.
as to upgrade the socket the pem does need to be opened and quite disassambled to reach to the jack. i would rate a d.i.y.-solution on the difficulty- scale to 7.5 out of 10 so i wouldn't recommend this job to amateurs.
if you're fearless please pm me for supervision, if not please contact f.ex. pete gruber for usa/canada etc. (i'm in germany...)
Thanks for the info. In the back of my mind I was thinking the same thing, that the problems I have had have been a mix of both issues - connector and motor. That the trouble has gone away makes me think that my issue was actually due to the fan motor being stressed by that high temperature run home after the botched reassembly of the car. I can imagine that the motor brushes were burned by the experience, and over time they have readjusted or cleaned themselves and so now are acting properly. If so, then perhaps a new fan motor will in fact be needed, as it is probably about worn out. A connector with burned contacts is not going to get better with time and use.
To the SC not being able to replace the PEM-side of the connector, I believe that has changed. This last service I mentioned that issue to the service manager, and he said that they are now "able" (allowed, if not trained) to dig into it instead of requiring a complete PEM swap. I suspect any particular SC's ability to do that work is going to depend on their staff's training and experience, and the car's owner's willingness to let them dig into their car to that level. The past two Annual service events have left my car initially in worse shape than when it went in.
dhrivnak
Active Member
The 2.x can pull up a lot of dirt and leaves from the road. But if miles are few and your roads are clean it can be pushed off in my Humble opinion. The 1.5 is much better as the PEM fan is WELL off the ground. So with clean roads two years is just fine as I get very little dirt from cleanings.
Hmmpf. So, I think the car is getting tired of this.
I just grabbed the logs for the month, and see that the 1146 alerts have, in fact, been continuing to occur. They're just not being picked up by the OVMSv3 for some reason, so I didn't see them. They're not normally displayed on the VMS, either, as I'm not in diagnostic mode. Wonder if the car has simply gotten used to them.
So, probably time to call Tesla back and see about that fan motor replacement...
I just grabbed the logs for the month, and see that the 1146 alerts have, in fact, been continuing to occur. They're just not being picked up by the OVMSv3 for some reason, so I didn't see them. They're not normally displayed on the VMS, either, as I'm not in diagnostic mode. Wonder if the car has simply gotten used to them.
So, probably time to call Tesla back and see about that fan motor replacement...
Hi, I'm getting the same errors but I'm in Australia and a long way from anyone who look at it. I pretty keen to have a look at it myself but would greatly appreciate any advice, or instructions if there are any available. Part numbers for the connectors and the fan would also be great, particularly upgrades if available.
Search “Molex” in this forum. When you find the part numbers you can look up the Molex instruction sheet for using and servicing those connectors. I bought mine from Digikey. I don’t know if anyone has made a how to on changing out the Molex connector on the bottom of the PEM. Once the PEM is on the bench you basically open it up and remove parts until you can get to the circuit board that the 90 degree connector is mounted to. Cut the old one out, solder in the new one and refer to all the pictures and notes you made when disassembling the PEM to put it all back together. Really not too difficult if you take your time. If you have never soldered something to a circuit board then this might not be for you. I’d say maybe 7/10 max. An easy one day job including pulling the PEM and putting it all back. Some people have suggested using the gold plated terminal variety of the same part and I think next time I’m in there that’s what I’ll do. The parts are cheap. Changing out the connector on the cable going to the fan is a piece of cake if the PEM is removed for service. I can come assist if you like. Sometime between now and Northern hemisphere spring would be fine. Just let me know when you have purchased a ticket for me