What Fsd Vs Ap Functionality Is There In The Uk?

[MrBadger]

AP now gets TACC which was the previously glaring omission for AP,

Haven't understood that, can you clarify please?

What I meant to say, was that TACC, aka adaptive cruise control was not a standard feature of the car, but was part of AP, which until recently, was an expensive option - adaptive cruise control is pretty much de facto at this price point and cheaper, so it was a glaring omission to have required AP to get it. As the autopilot package is now fitted as standard, no additional cost required for UK versions (AP has been assimilated at a discount into the base model price), so even base model gets some great safety features as standard.

 

[WannabeOwner]

If that guy

I find fault in his non-scientific methods and dialog accuracy (easy enough to actually do a Review and to put up a Caption to correct an audio mistake made real-time ), even cutting him some slack I don't follow him.

So there is an opening for you @RjbT3

 

[WannabeOwner]

TACC, aka adaptive cruise control was not a standard feature of the car, but was part of AP, which until recently, was an expensive option

Thanks. Yes, TACC only available with AP originally, Without AP only had standard Cruise Control and, as you said, AP and therefore TACC now standard on all cars (basic-price went up to include that ...)

it was a glaring omission to have required AP to get it

I'd say it differently: Tesla need the cash. Options like this are used to encourage up-sell, particularly those which are just software - so no cost-of-sales for Tesla to reap that Cash / Profit

 

[MrBadger]

Could make you money too ... capturing edge-cases on YouTube as Tesla Driver does

I wish he would be clear that many of the scenarios he shows, are not scenarios where AP is meant to be officially used. So casual observers will think that AP is meant for these situations and either unwittingly try the same, or get a pretty flawed idea of autopilots capabilities, not appreciating that its a future feature of the FSD package.

AP gets most of its bad press because many people, and press, think of it as something that it is not. Made worse when likes of Thatcham test it in scenarios it is unlikely to encounter then press pick up on these as major issues. The well publicised video of last second swerve by a car to reveal a stationary car in front is really not going to be a common occurrence in the scenarios currently supported by AP - but if people want to use AP outside of these scenarios, then they must be super vigilant. But its always reported as the fault of AP and never the fault of the driver for using something in a situation that it was not officially intended. If I used a circular saw to cut my finger nails and cut off my finger, it would be my fault, not the circular saw manufacturers. But for Tesla, and many other companies in this field, its always their fault.

That said, his videos given me an insight of what AP is capable of (good and bad) even when used outside its design spec, although some are pretty daft and I do get the impression that he is a bit naïve of some of some of the scenarios he is explaining. Nice job to have though if it buys you a big new house, couple of expensive cars and you are probably still a teenager - joke - he is slightly older than that, I think.

Surprised though that Tesla loan him a car and he uses it to demonstrate in scenarios that AP is currently not intended for use. They are kind of perpetuating the myth of what AP currently officially supports, which is kind of irresponsible imho.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The well publicised video of last second swerve by a car to reveal a stationary car in front is really not going to be a common occurrence in the scenarios currently supported by AP

Reminder to all, particularly newbies:

Hand on the wheel, eyes out front, alert at all times. The fact that the car never puts a foot wrong on AP is the biggest risk because, over time, it induces complacency. People have been killed "doing something else" - reading text / watching movie / asleep on the back seat - when they actually had plenty of time to avoid the fatal crash that then ensued

AP is not going to do something daft that you will be expecting ... the AI stuff is not thinking like a human, at all - equally it is not suddenly going to swerve into the armco ... but it may follow the faded white lines wrongly, and straight into a concrete barrier or a parked car (particularly one that that was hidden until the car in front pulled over to avoid it)

 

[vitesse]

So are you saying that AP1 automatically re-engages Autosteer after a manual lane change in AP? With AP2 for a manual lane change in AP you first have to disengage AS by overriding the steering (if you want TACC to remain on) and then manually switch AS back on with all the associated bing-bongs! I always assumed AP1 was the same in this respect.

Let me check, just going to my daughter's place in Portsmouth shortly, M25 and A3... Will report back later.

What I can say is that AP2 on the loaner I've just had for the last week behaved rather differently to AP1. There has been a sw update recent but I don't think any big changes are reported.

Going to try to get there and back without topping up as well (180 miles total).

What's roadside assistance like these days?

 

[goRt]

What your describing is basically lane keep assist with radar cruise control.

Following a white line is very easy, most sixth form students should be able to build a robot that can do this, however thats not even close to 'full self driving'.

If you look at what Tesla AP software since 9.0 is doing your quickly realise its much much more advanced than just sticking in lane.

The 'Tesla vision' is improving with every update, the car now can consistently 'see' surrounding vehicles, cyclists, even pedestrians (though less reliably). The car is also starting to process this info, after changing lanes to overtake I've noticed the car wants to move back into the slower lane much quicker if there is another car behind.

The current software also reponds to merging traffic well, and even when lane lines disappear at traffic lights/mini round abouts it makes a good 'guess' at which way to go without crashing into stationary traffic. This is far more advanced than anything else I've seen.

The suggestion is though Tesla vision is coming along nicely even on 2.0 CPU, its already taxing the processing power to 80% consistently. A move to 3.0 CPU is 100% needed to now actually action on the vision data the car now generates.

The next 6-12 months will be really exciting from the FSD point of view, and partly why I was happy to order it in the recent 'sale'.

Legislation may handicap things though, our X would have done the M6 trip from Stoke to Kendal including overtaking slower traffic, getting into lane for Mway junctions all by it self with 'Nav on AP' if the EU/UN laws weren't implemented .

Correct, that's what I've described as that is what was being discussed in the post I quoted "Tesla AP is way better than most typical ICE equivalents..."

As I said, the use case for standard AP on Tesla is flawed and should work as I've described.

 

[Peteski]

As I said, the use case for standard AP on Tesla is flawed and should work as I've described.

That I would certainly agree with. I would much prefer AP/FSD to have a manual lane change option with automatic re-engagement of AS in the new lane. Auto-lane change would be all well and good, but it's just painfully slow and makes you look like you are half asleep at the wheel. I find myself often overriding auto-lane change in even moderate traffic.

 

[WannabeOwner]

. I find myself often overriding auto-lane change in even moderate traffic.

Does it work (AP2+) if no traffic?

On AP1 it seems to work for me flawlessly / repeatedly ... some of the time. Then it takes "too long" on 90% of occasions and I override ... and it does that "for some time" .... and then a bit later on in my journey I find it is "OK every time" again

I can't figure out any reason / common-cause for the difference between the two states

 

[Peteski]

Does it work (AP2+) if no traffic?

On AP1 it seems to work for me flawlessly / repeatedly ... some of the time. Then it takes "too long" on 90% of occasions and I override ... and it does that "for some time" .... and then a bit later on in my journey I find it is "OK every time" again

I can't figure out any reason / common-cause for the difference between the two states

Yeah it works and is reasonably consistent. It just takes ages after signalling (maybe 2 seconds, which doesn't sound much, but is very irritating) before committing to the lane change and then the lane change itself is fairly pedestrian. If you are just pulling out to pass a few trucks with not much other traffic around then it's fine. But if you are in some moderately aggressive traffic and need to make some decisive changes then it is nowhere! Makes NoA a bit of a joke really.

 

[vitesse]

So are you saying that AP1 automatically re-engages Autosteer after a manual lane change in AP? With AP2 for a manual lane change in AP you first have to disengage AS by overriding the steering (if you want TACC to remain on) and then manually switch AS back on with all the associated bing-bongs! I always assumed AP1 was the same in this respect.

Being serious, have I read your point right? On AP1 in autosteer mode to change lane you indicate and the car steers to the lane you're aiming at. You don't need to disengage anything.

On AP2 I found that autosteer lake changing hardly ever worked because it was 'inhibited'.

Anyway, everything worked a treat this afternoon and I only used 37% battery to get here in Portsmouth instead of the pre-journey nav prediction of 47%

 

[WannabeOwner]

I only used 37% battery to get here in Portsmouth

Pah! Granny Mode eh?

 

[vitesse]

Pah! Granny Mode eh?

This is supposed to be a scientific experiment!

 

[goRt]

This is supposed to be a scientific experiment!

Did you make sure all environmentals were constant - temperature, wind speed/direct, same cars causing turbulence, same junction waiting.

 

[vitesse]

Did you make sure all environmentals were constant - temperature, wind speed/direct, same cars causing turbulence, same junction waiting.

Um, of course! Er,...

 

[interbear]

Reminder to all, particularly newbies:

Hand on the wheel, eyes out front, alert at all times. The fact that the car never puts a foot wrong on AP is the biggest risk because, over time, it induces complacency. People have been killed "doing something else" - reading text / watching movie / asleep on the back seat - when they actually had plenty of time to avoid the fatal crash that then ensued

AP is not going to do something daft that you will be expecting ... the AI stuff is not thinking like a human, at all - equally it is not suddenly going to swerve into the armco ... but it may follow the faded white lines wrongly, and straight into a concrete barrier or a parked car (particularly one that that was hidden until the car in front pulled over to avoid it)

Good advice.

One of the reasons I didn’t opt for FSD on my order as I simply wouldn’t use it anyway. I can see some advantages of intelligent cruise control maintaining distance between vehicles on a motorway, so the standard AP is quite enough for me. And even with that I will absolutely have my hands on the wheel and eyes on the road at all times. Common sense should always be applied whatever the tech feature. Responsibility for driving safety can not be delegated to any tech in my view.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Common sense should always be applied whatever the tech feature.

The problem, as I see it, is that AP will mis-perform in ways that humans aren't expecting.

For example: if AP phantom-brakes periodically (for no obvious reason - gap looks same to Driver as any previous gap, but somehow it looks different to AP) the driver will be inclined to have foot over accelerator to be ready to compensate ... and then AP brakes for the car two-in-front, which Driver can't see is slowing, and maybe? driver overrides accelerator based on previous experience.
Don't get me wrong, AP is a godsend - dramatically reduces driver-workload, and consequently results in hugely reduced / zero! tiredness, and provides more opportunity to keep a more detailed / distant / surround watch out, so safer because more chance that drive spots something they would otherwise have missed, or AP avoids something that the driver never saw / reacted to int he first place.

 

[Peteski]

Being serious, have I read your point right? On AP1 in autosteer mode to change lane you indicate and the car steers to the lane you're aiming at. You don't need to disengage anything.

On AP2 I found that autosteer lake changing hardly ever worked because it was 'inhibited'.

Anyway, everything worked a treat this afternoon and I only used 37% battery to get here in Portsmouth instead of the pre-journey nav prediction of 47% View attachment 421914

We were specifically discussing the limitations of the new free basic AP i.e. without the auto-lane change functionality of EAP/FSD. I have EAP (AP2 car) and auto-lane change works fine, except for being a bit slow to react.

 

[Asterix187]

You've got to remember this is also EAP which is a mix of all AP features and some FSD features for slightly older AP2/2.5 cars. Mine has EAP and i get TACC, Autopilot and NoA etc.

 

[vitesse]

We were specifically discussing the limitations of the new free basic AP i.e. without the auto-lane change functionality of EAP/FSD. I have EAP (AP2 car) and auto-lane change works fine, except for being a bit slow to react.

Fair enough, but basically I thought you wanted confirmation of what AP1 could do.

As I said, the HW2 loaner S75 I had for a week behaved quite differently in several ways and was not as smooth or even practical as the AP1 I'm used to. The loaner had NoA but I found autosteer lane changes almost impossible.

Perhaps I wasn't used to it, but my experience seems to echo many others.

It did respect no passing on the inside lane, which AP1 currently does not.