What happens if everyone drove EV?

[JetFalcon]

I thought of this idea of promoting my Tesla code at a Costco gas station. Those cheap people are willing to wait in much longer lines just to pay a few dollars less per tank. And alot of them are driving Mercedes / BMWs yet they still will go outta their way to save only a few bucks on what is gonna be a $50-70 purchase.

What would happen if everyone drove an EV?

We would have 10s of thousands of fewer deaths due to pollution each year.
We (the USA) would have far fewer soldiers and support staff in danger in foreign lands.
There would be far fewer car fires, oil spills and other accidents.

And at 50%, our grid wouldn’t bat an eye.

If USA had wars related to EV cars, would it likely be over raw materials for batteries? Or will it be peace on earth b/c EV cars don't need wars for oil? Would we need to have wars for cobalt when that becomes scarce, articles say by 2050 raw materials for EV batteries may become scarce, but its more of a warning.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I thought of this idea of promoting my Tesla code at a Costco gas station. Those cheap people are willing to wait in much longer lines just to pay a few dollars less per tank. And alot of them are driving Mercedes / BMWs yet they still will go outta their way to save only a few bucks on what is gonna be a $50-70 purchase.


If USA had wars related to EV cars, would it likely be over raw materials for batteries? Or will it be peace on earth b/c EV cars don't need wars for oil? Would we need to have wars for cobalt when that becomes scarce, articles say by 2050 raw materials for EV batteries may become scarce, but its more of a warning.

There should be less tension.

Fuel-based energy depends on continuous supply of a rapidly-consumed resource.
1 month of issues that affect oil prices would affect almost the entire fleet.

Technology-based energy embeds energy in durable, recyclable devices.
1 month of issues that affected lithium battery prices would affect under 1% of the fleet.

Recycling should make a big difference to supply. 90% recycling rates would effectively multiply resources by 10.

 

[I'm_Jp]

Think of the lines at the charging stations...

 

[hcdavis3]

My head hurts...

My hair hurts.

 

[Kirby64]

Think of the lines at the charging stations...

In the world where we near 100% EVs on the roads, then I imagine it won't be that bad, since EV chargers will be ubiquitous. Plus, if you own a house, you ideally should never be charging at a charging station yourself.

That limits public stations to apartment folks... which ideally an apartment complex should be providing. If every car is an EV, then every parking spot at an apartment complex ideally becomes an EV charging spot.

The issue is where we are right now: marginal EV coverage, so apartment-dwellers usually don't have access to an EV charger at their complex. Or if they do, the complex charges a stupid amount of money for them (I've heard stuff like >$30/month).

Once it becomes mandatory instead of optional, cost should fall through the floor and approach the actual electricity cost.

 

[Jest]

Solar is completely off the table for any region of the world with overcast seasons for any sizeable amount of power storage.
My panels kept my needs for around 6 months and my home battery at nearly 100%.

Since fall until now I’ve have virtually zero charge, as I’ve had virtually zero sun, my power bill literally tripled and this is with no EV yet.

This is just normal winter overcast in the lower mainland BC. Places like the UK would be worse I imagine.

I can’t claim what green energy we need, but I know it won’t be any one kind as it’s region specific.

I would foresee a combination of options per region to suit energy needs per area.

Thankfully I live in a hydro rich area and our power has always been clean and plentiful. This is not the case everywhere though and some power grids are already well taxed.

 

[lolder]

Where it's overcast and rainy you're likely to have hydro and wind. The Pacific northwest is one of the worst solar. Europe and the UK are much better for solar.

 

[640k]

I'm in one of those states that charge $200 for my model 3 . Technically, you could be charged per mile since all EVs know what state they are in and how many miles they have gone.

yay OH. thanks red states.

 

[Kirby64]

yay OH. thanks red states.

Realistically, road taxes need to be collected. The way some states are going about it is pretty dumb though. It seems to be higher than the average gas tax, even.

Problem is no one wants to submit a log to the government for how much you drive every year because that's a privacy thing... so that leaves two options:

• Fixed tax at some value they consider to make up for lost gas tax
• Enforce that electricity used to charge EVs is taxed (i.e. an added 'road tax' to that).

Since #2 is never going to happen cause it's too restrictive, you're left with a flat tax. I'm not sure any other way to handle that, unless you propose eliminating road taxation collection as-is and rolling it into some other tax...

 

[Silicon Desert]

I thought of this idea of promoting my Tesla code at a Costco gas station. Those cheap people are willing to wait in much longer lines just to pay a few dollars less per tank. And alot of them are driving Mercedes / BMWs yet they still will go outta their way to save only a few bucks on what is gonna be a $50-70 purchase.

It is not a good assumption that people are going out of their way to save money. Like us, they likely shop at Costco, so they just conveniently fill up before that leave. That is the case with us. And we go early. No lines.

 

[jboy210]

In the world where we near 100% EVs on the roads, then I imagine it won't be that bad, since EV chargers will be ubiquitous. Plus, if you own a house, you ideally should never be charging at a charging station yourself.

That limits public stations to apartment folks... which ideally an apartment complex should be providing. If every car is an EV, then every parking spot at an apartment complex ideally becomes an EV charging spot.

The issue is where we are right now: marginal EV coverage, so apartment-dwellers usually don't have access to an EV charger at their complex. Or if they do, the complex charges a stupid amount of money for them (I've heard stuff like >$30/month).

Once it becomes mandatory instead of optional, cost should fall through the floor and approach the actual electricity cost.

$30/mo extra on the apartment rent to charge would be cheap for many. They pay much more than that for gas.

 

[gigawatt1010]

@JetFalcon - those are some pretty deep thoughts man! I'll have what you're smoking please!

 

[Saghost]

$30/mo extra on the apartment rent to charge would be cheap for many. They pay much more than that for gas.

If the $30 includes the electricity, it’s a great deal for most folks - the average 12k annual driver will use ~300-400 kWh per month for the car...

 

[Kirby64]

$30/mo extra on the apartment rent to charge would be cheap for many. They pay much more than that for gas.

Sure, cheaper than gas, but if you count it on a kWh basis usually it works out to a stupid amount compared to what you pay for normal electricity. Using $30/mo as an example:

Let's assume you drive 700mi/month (10mi/day for 30 days, plus 400 miles in extra 'side' trips...) all of which you charge from that outlet. Keep in mind that road trips necessarily can't be counted towards that, since you can't use that charger anywhere, and most people add all their miles on during road trips. So the 400mi extra is probably generous.

At that rate, let's assume 250Wh/mi, so 4mi per kWh. So 175 kWh into the car... let's assume 80% charging efficiency. So 220 kWh even...

220kWh * ~12c/kWh = $26.4. So your break-even point for paying $30/mo would be north of that amount of charge/consumption. Realistically, most people with EVs at apartments are probably charging less than that 700mi/month, so the cost-benefit gets worse. And I've heard stuff as unrealistic as $70/mo for a charging spot. An apartment I used to live at charged $50/mo just to have a reserved spot...

In comparison, if you get 30mpg average, gas would cost $58 if you paid $2.50/gal and has WAY more flexibility. Texas currently has gas at $2.20ish/gal...

 

[Jomak]

Hydrogen is the answer you are looking for

 

[Kirby64]

If the $30 includes the electricity, it’s a great deal for most folks - the average 12k annual driver will use ~300-400 kWh per month for the car...

Very very much dependent on your commute and how much you can actually charge at that dedicated spot. It seems to me unlikely that the average commuter would charge all 12k miles at their apartment. In my experience, the majority of the big mileage is put on during roadtrips... so I couldn't use a charger at an apartment if I wanted to.

 

[jboy210]

Sure, cheaper than gas, but if you count it on a kWh basis usually it works out to a stupid amount compared to what you pay for normal electricity. Using $30/mo as an example:

Let's assume you drive 700mi/month (10mi/day for 30 days, plus 400 miles in extra 'side' trips...) all of which you charge from that outlet. Keep in mind that road trips necessarily can't be counted towards that, since you can't use that charger anywhere, and most people add all their miles on during road trips. So the 400mi extra is probably generous.

At that rate, let's assume 250Wh/mi, so 4mi per kWh. So 175 kWh into the car... let's assume 80% charging efficiency. So 220 kWh even...

220kWh * ~12c/kWh = $26.4. So your break-even point for paying $30/mo would be north of that amount of charge/consumption. Realistically, most people with EVs at apartments are probably charging less than that 700mi/month, so the cost-benefit gets worse. And I've heard stuff as unrealistic as $70/mo for a charging spot. An apartment I used to live at charged $50/mo just to have a reserved spot...

In comparison, if you get 30mpg average, gas would cost $58 if you paid $2.50/gal and has WAY more flexibility. Texas currently has gas at $2.20ish/gal...

Here in California we pay from $0.15 to $0.50/KW. And regular gas is $4/gal. So that is the reality for 1 in 9 Americans. I

 

[Uncle Paul]

I quit paying my monthly Solar Panel lease because the salesperson said they would pay for themselves after 3 years

 

[Kirby64]

Here in California we pay from $0.15 to $0.50/KW. And regular gas is $4/gal. So that is the reality for 1 in 9 Americans. I

I assume the cost of a dedicated space to charge your EV would also be reflected in that cost. I doubt it would be $30/mo.

 

[jboy210]

I assume the cost of a dedicated space to charge your EV would also be reflected in that cost. I doubt it would be $30/mo.

I assumed the $30/mo was in addition to the regular cost of a parking space. For that it seems like a bargain to get charging.