What happens if you tape over the cabin camera?

[linux-works]

I recall a car that was being pen-tested (admittedly by a top-notch red team in our company) and they got into ours from the outside, eventually getting to CANbus and getting root in a gateway. (damn!). we found and fixed the flaw but it goes to show, even when you take pains to try to secure things, experts (and script kiddies, if it ever gets to that) will be able to get in; there are so many vectors that you would not believe until you see it done before your eyes.

btw, this is why users will never get true api access to cars. vendors are not security experts and too much is at risk, so they will be turning all dangerous write-access off, and the smarter ones will even disable read access (due to side effects). I hate that, as I like to remotely control things, but having been on the vendor side, I understand their view and actually agree with it. CANbus will eventually be encrypted, networking, when the chipsets are ready for broad-r-reach PHY/MAC based encryption, tapping into your car will be a thing of the past.

but I still will assume that data-at-rest is still not properly secured and that temp files are truly deleted (securely), even if they do start to lock the car down bit by bit, over time (which again, I hope every car maker does).

 

[linux-works]

And it is open season on drones flying over, hunting preserve a property over and any idiot flying a drone ..well they make good target practice.

lol, one of my hobbies is to build quads. I'm a basic LOS flyer (no cameras, no goggles) and none of my builds had cameras. just not into that side of things, I guess. but building and flying them line-of-sight, that's fun.

 

[linux-works]

In my prior not so happy life as a litigation discovery consultant I can assure the forum that you are absolutely correct. Not just correct but worse...you are being kind to the vendors and buyers as it regards to data security.

how about this sceanario: suppose you are in an accident and its not so clear whose fault it is. and suppose that the camera is live and it snaps a sequence of images that might 'hang' you, in some way. maybe you were not at fault, or maybe you were - that's not the point, here. the point is that you may have just been an unwilling witness to yourself, so to speak, and maybe due to how the photos were captured or the lighting or the situation specifics - maybe something is unflattering to your case. but if the photos are embedded black-box style and can be extracted under court order, I wonder how 'private' those photo sequences or video snips really are.

IANAL, but I see no point in providing attack vectors, so to speak, that *could* be used against me, even if I knew in my heart of hearts that I was not at fault for some incident. in the real world, innocent people often dont 'go free'. that camera footage is not something I can control and I dont know where it goes, what it could be used for long-term or short-term and I dont see the benefit to it.

its not that I assign a high probability to this kind of thing happening, but why even enable it? that's my point. if I turn it off, its one less thing to worry about. one less 'watching eye' that I can decide to disable or at least not enable. other watching eyes in the world - you can't turn those off, but I should have full say for what goes on inside my private property; my house and car, especially.

 

[KurtSanders]

For those worried about or indicating that you will tape over the Tesla inside cabin camera, where are you with restricting your outside cameras from video taping others without their consent? You could always discontinue Sentry mode and a USB card as well to be consistent with your stand on privacy?

IMHO, if you are really paranoid about your own privacy, here is a abbreviated list of some items that are/might/could be tracking/recording your usage and in most cases you have authorized them in their contractual terms of use:

1. All hardware/software cameras and video services (e.g. PCs with cameras, Zoom, Google/Microsoft/IBM, Ring, etc)
2. Steaming Media Services (e.g. Spotify, Apple/Amazon Music, etc)
3. Credit/Debit Cards
4. Cellular Phones
5. Free Email Services
6. Social Media Services
7. Online Banks
8. Internet and TV Providers, DVR's
9. Cloud Services
10. Scanning the Bar Code on your Drivers License
11. Text Messaging
12. Gift Cards, Grocery Savings Cards, etc

 

[Jacopa]

 

[linux-works]

I find it odd that it has to be explained to some people why there is a difference between having the outside of your car taking image captures of street lines and other cars - and having a 100% dedicated camera JUST to ensure that you fit some behavior model that some vendor thinks will ensure 'safety' on the road.

I'm not willing to make that trade.

and it seems that some people will just never 'get' that viewpoint. and that's fine. no one is trying to take ANYTHING away from you folks. you can have all the cams pointed at you, live mics, even sensors tapping into your bloodstream. have fun, go nuts. just count me out of that Brave New World, mmm'kay?

there is no reason to have to be either/or. give the cam folks their cams inside and they get their little goody. for the refuseniks, just keep what we have as 'option b' and we're all happy peaceful brothers and sisters again.

we good?

 

[nativewolf]

I agree @linux-works but then again I also don't do instagram or snapchat, etc. Old? Maybe so...I don't use facebook either so not that old .

O

 

[Noflash]

For those worried about or indicating that you will tape over the Tesla inside cabin camera, where are you with restricting your outside cameras from video taping others without their consent? You could always discontinue Sentry mode and a USB card as well to be consistent with your stand on privacy?

IMHO, if you are really paranoid about your own privacy, here is a abbreviated list of some items that are/might/could be tracking/recording your usage and in most cases you have authorized them in their contractual terms of use:

1. All hardware/software cameras and video services (e.g. PCs with cameras, Zoom, Google/Microsoft/IBM, Ring, etc)
2. Steaming Media Services (e.g. Spotify, Apple/Amazon Music, etc)
3. Credit/Debit Cards
4. Cellular Phones
5. Free Email Services
6. Social Media Services
7. Online Banks
8. Internet and TV Providers, DVR's
9. Cloud Services
10. Scanning the Bar Code on your Drivers License
11. Text Messaging
12. Gift Cards, Grocery Savings Cards, etc

View attachment 668665

10 Reasons Why Privacy Matters

by Daniel J. Solove Why does privacy matter? Often courts and commentators struggle to articulate why privacy is valuable. They see privacy violations as

teachprivacy.com

 

[KurtSanders]

10 Reasons Why Privacy Matters

by Daniel J. Solove Why does privacy matter? Often courts and commentators struggle to articulate why privacy is valuable. They see privacy violations as

teachprivacy.com

This is a wishlist!

 

[Rice&Curry]

My guess is that Tesla has not yet rolled out the cabin camera update for existing vehicles which have camera and radar. It will first get rolled out on the camera only cars and then camera plus radar equipped M3 and MY. Will give Tesla time to update the various branches of their Sw code base.

 

[linux-works]

This is a wishlist!

to feel good (or even great) about completely surrendering and giving up your privacy - even worse - to declare it dead and irrelevant to everyone ELSE - that's quite a leap.

some people really like being slaves or being told what to do. there are others that don't want to have a 'master'.

loving the surveillance is akin to loving servitude. and its a stance I find as foreign to me as is possible.

its such a great con, to not only convince people to wear shakles but to wear them with pride.

 

[jsmay311]

My guess is that Tesla has not yet rolled out the cabin camera update for existing vehicles which have camera and radar. It will first get rolled out on the camera only cars and then camera plus radar equipped M3 and MY. Will give Tesla time to update the various branches of their Sw code base.

I think this guess came just a few hours too late.

According to the TeslaFi Firmware tracker, 2021.4.18.2 just started rolling out, and it includes cabin camera monitoring according to the published release notes.

2021.4.18.2 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2021.4.18.2 includes Cabin Camera Updates, Minor Fixes.

www.notateslaapp.com

But unlike its predecessor 2021.4.18.1, it’s rolling out to vehicles new and old — with and without radar.

 

[wraithfive]

My guess is that Tesla has not yet rolled out the cabin camera update for existing vehicles which have camera and radar. It will first get rolled out on the camera only cars and then camera plus radar equipped M3 and MY. Will give Tesla time to update the various branches of their Sw code base.

I very much doubt that they have that many branches. Well, production branches at least. There will be many many feature and bug branches of course. But it's very unlikely they have a "camera only" branch, and "camera + radar branch" etc etc. They change things far too often for that. Instead you simply have logic in the software that detects what hardware is available and acts appropriately based on that.

 

[mlkmade]

Vision only new Y here. The in cabin camera monitoring is horrible. Does anyone know if covering the camera disables AP?

 

[Rice&Curry]

I think monitoring driver attentiveness will soon be mandated by DOT in any car/vehicle which intends to provide semi or fully autonomous driving.
If you tape it, then my guess is Tesla will not enable the use EAP or FSD features- it becomes a safety issue for everyone. At least this how any sw developer would design the logic in the code to take care of such scenarios.

 

[linux-works]

otoh, a lot of people dont like having actual cameras in the cabin.

an IR sensor does not take images. if they used a sensor that truly cannot take 'images' - then the privacy thing is solved. some vendors are doing this, I think.

right now, tesla has the wheel tension detector and I see no reason that has to go away if the user chooses the no-camera privacy option.

the day they demand I uncover my camera just to get the AP that I paid for, the car will be up for sale. I simply refuse to tolerate cameras in the cabin that I dont 100% control. and I know I'm not alone in that, especially in the US.

 

[mlkmade]

I wonder if it has to do with my factory firmware and/or just getting AP activated. Everyone has responded to me here and reddit like this doesn't exist and I'm doing something wrong.