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What IF...The production MX has NO falcon doors................?!

Sunlight

Member
May 7, 2014
331
777
South Africa
Why is the MX taking so long when so much of the complicated stuff will overlap with the MS? It is really only a different body and interior.

OK maybe the MS is consuming more time and money and effort than imagined but..............

I'm sure Tesla want the MX to be 'perfect' compared to the MS which had a lot of sympathetic early adopters (and Tesla fanboys..!) and could afford perfection 'on the run'.

Maybe, just maybe, the falcon doors are proving seriously tricky with the potential for bad press and reports and poor reliability in the real world.

Tesla may decide to make the late call to go with normal rear doors - perhaps much larger than normal (and powered to open and close) and spin the 'bad' publicity somehow.

What do you all reckon to this 'flight of fancy'.....?
 

bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.
Feb 6, 2011
16,429
9,934
Columbia River Gorge
Why is the MX taking so long when so much of the complicated stuff will overlap with the MS? It is really only a different body and interior.

OK maybe the MS is consuming more time and money and effort than imagined but..............

I'm sure Tesla want the MX to be 'perfect' compared to the MS which had a lot of sympathetic early adopters (and Tesla fanboys..!) and could afford perfection 'on the run'.

Maybe, just maybe, the falcon doors are proving seriously tricky with the potential for bad press and reports and poor reliability in the real world.

Tesla may decide to make the late call to go with normal rear doors - perhaps much larger than normal (and powered to open and close) and spin the 'bad' publicity somehow.

What do you all reckon to this 'flight of fancy'.....?

So basically, start the engineering over?

Won't. Happen.
 

Citizen-T

Active Member
Aug 25, 2011
2,443
107
Raleigh, NC
Everybody is so quick to blame the doors. Tesla hasn't given any indication that the doors have been a problem from an engineering standpoint. I think one time (a long time ago) he said something about getting them to seal right, but since then I haven't heard anything that makes me think the doors are a problem.

In fact, Elon was pretty clear during this ER that the problem isn't with the car at all, it is with the machines that make the car. He said they could be a handful of production Model X right now if they wanted to, but they want to build thousands of them, and they need more time to do that.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,199
9,082
Maine
Everybody is so quick to blame the doors. Tesla hasn't given any indication that the doors have been a problem from an engineering standpoint. I think one time (a long time ago) he said something about getting them to seal right, but since then I haven't heard anything that makes me think the doors are a problem.

Exactly. Elon Musk mentioned it as an _example_ of an engineering challenge, but personally I feel that that was just a diversionary tactic used because so many people have assumed that the the falcon wing doors were a massive engineering challenge.
 

gavine

Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Apr 1, 2014
2,615
2,184
Philadelphia, PA
Maybe the delay has to do with them waiting for the government to allow the side cameras in lieu of mirrors. Elon had said that deleting the mirrors would afford 5% more range. That's kind of huge and enough to make them wait if that is indeed the holdup. They can't enveil the final production car without mirrors if it will have them and vice versa.
 

techmaven

Active Member
Feb 27, 2013
3,618
9,768
Actually, I was just thinking that there was a distinct possibility that Tesla started over with the Model X sometime this summer. With the extra delay and the launch of the "D" versions of the S before the X, there is a very real possibility that Tesla/Musk decided that they needed to essentially start over above the skateboard. The "D" versions of the S essentially provide the software and hardware validation of the drivetrain of the X. If the above the skateboard portions of the X were ready, then the X could ship this year or early next year.

Of course, it isn't a real completely start over from scratch. But maybe the decided to revisit old assumptions and backtrack significantly and work forward from a much earlier point.
 
Maybe the delay has to do with them waiting for the government to allow the side cameras in lieu of mirrors. Elon had said that deleting the mirrors would afford 5% more range. That's kind of huge and enough to make them wait if that is indeed the holdup. They can't enveil the final production car without mirrors if it will have them and vice versa.
This!
 

Aljohn

Member
Oct 17, 2014
914
526
Georgia
All great speculation, wishes and such. At this time, I will trust Elon statement during the call, he seems to be fairly upright (with in reason in a public traded company).
Asked directly, Elon said... I para phrase: Manufacturing is really tough, if you want to be certain the final product is perfect. It is building enough to realize that there are 100 things going wrong that show the weakness of the manufacturing process. He also said the Falcon Wing door were not the culprit.

Given that no one has seen a Beta X driving on the California highways, then too few Beta test models exists to adequately test the X body (assume the Model S underpinnings). That said, we may see Beta's X traveling soon. Keep the cameras poised in California. Maybe there will be a Model X reveal before.... whishing, and hoping...
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,111
1,305
So Cal
In fact, Elon was pretty clear during this ER that the problem isn't with the car at all, it is with the machines that make the car. He said they could be a handful of production Model X right now if they wanted to, but they want to build thousands of them, and they need more time to do that.

If this were true, then at least the betas would be out by now.
 

JohnQ

Active Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,612
76
Redding, CT
While I'm sure Tesla's not sending the doors back to the drawing board, Elon's penchant for pushing engineering boundaries, sometimes for unnecessary items like the falcon door, creates challenges from a manufacturing standpoint. Design and engineering decisions can easily lead to some of the manufacturing and quality concerns that were alluded to on the call.
 

anticitizen13.7

Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Dec 22, 2012
3,638
5,870
United States
While I'm sure Tesla's not sending the doors back to the drawing board, Elon's penchant for pushing engineering boundaries, sometimes for unnecessary items like the falcon door, creates challenges from a manufacturing standpoint. Design and engineering decisions can easily lead to some of the manufacturing and quality concerns that were alluded to on the call.

Given that the Alpha phase is nearly complete and Betas are being built, I believe this is an accurate assessment.

There's little chance that the Model X was substantially re-designed this summer, as the design was more or less frozen in Q2 from what I remember from the investor conference calls. I suspect that any major design changes would have occurred in summer of 2013.
 

Barry

Active Member
Aug 9, 2013
1,908
1,576
Colorado
Everybody is so quick to blame the doors.
Since the X is the same vehicle as the D, except for body style, seems likely.

Maybe the delay has to do with them waiting for the government to allow the side cameras in lieu of mirrors.
They should know better than to count on the government to meet some kind of legislative timetable, just as we know not to believe Tesla's timetable :smile:

I have a trip to take next Spring where I was thinking of driving my new 85D rather than flying. However, I cannot count on having the vehicle at that time, despite a 2 month window.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,111
1,305
So Cal
Why? Do you know what the requirements are for the Beta name to get stamped on a car? Maybe built via production intended machines is part of it.

No, because they aren't production vehicles. I'm merely stating that if they had the capacity to churn out a limited series of MX's right now, then they would have done so. It's clear that there is something else holding it up. Likely the side cameras requiring regulatory approval.
 

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