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What is FSD value in used car market?
- Thread starter phantasms
- Start date
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Only if you sale your car to a third party, no for a trade-in as Tesla will not give you something for it,
and will sale FSD again as an additional option to the next owner even if the car already had FSD !!!
If you lease a car, since you cannot buy the car at the end of the lease, getting FSD
would be also an additional up front cost that you cannot get back when returning the car.
Basically, monetary wise, FSD is worthwhile only if you keep you car for a long time and sale your car yourself.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
The forum below mentioned in April
Kelly Blue Book has a market value of "FSD" of $1,750.
If you plug in your car at kbb.com and then add and delete it, you can see the value.
FSD purchase unfair when trading in
I don't have access to KBB. Maybe someone can give the current value on KBB. Or maybe there are other (used car) websites where the value can be derived.
I am curious what the FSD value will be for the used car market, when FSD will cost ~ 10K
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
CapeOne
Active Member
Some KBB valuations make no sense when it comes to Teslas, but that's a separate discussion. Anyway, here you go...
Using a 2019 MS LR with 16k miles as a basis:
AP only = $775 retail and $695 trade-in
FSD only = $1,390 retail and $1,250 trade-in
AP and FSD = $2,165 retail and $1,945 trade-in
"Retail" values are dealer retail and "trade-in" is based on a car in good/average condition. These are just approximate as they can vary by location.
Since you need AP to get FSD, the KBB site should automatically add AP when you select FSD but it doesn’t. Selecting FSD only will give a misleadingly low value since it doesn’t reflect AP.
If FSD actually is delivered this year, I would assume that it will worth at least $5k in resale value.
CapeOne
Active Member
Here are two 2016 MS 75s in California, one with FSD and one without. One is white and the other midnight silver but both have similar miles, 19” slipstream wheels, tan next gen seats, body color roof, clean histories, etc.
With FSD for $43,500
2016 Model S | Tesla
Without FSD for $43,400
2016 Model S | Tesla
Using these “real world” examples, I guess that means FSD is worth about $100 after four years.
With FSD for $43,500
2016 Model S | Tesla
Without FSD for $43,400
2016 Model S | Tesla
Using these “real world” examples, I guess that means FSD is worth about $100 after four years.
This is a fascinating economics / pricing question.
When you trade your used FSD car into Tesla, it has nearly zero value to them. They only need to price FSD at the margin -- what the used market would pay for it, adjusted for the value you get by trading into Tesla. Which varies by tax location based on how sales tax is computed. Some states only tax the difference, others tax the full sale price with no credit for the trade in.
The "nearly zero" value Tesla puts on the FSD trade in isn't exactly zero because there is a small incremental cost to supporting FSD on an additional vehicle. But it can be approximated as zero.
When Tesla sells the used car, it doesn't matter if it came in with FSD or not. It is a negligible cost to change a setting in the configuration. So logically it's not going to influence if that specific car is sold with FSD. They can play games with different listing prices to find the optimal price curve, which probably varies by model, age, condition and mileage.
When you trade your used FSD car into Tesla, it has nearly zero value to them. They only need to price FSD at the margin -- what the used market would pay for it, adjusted for the value you get by trading into Tesla. Which varies by tax location based on how sales tax is computed. Some states only tax the difference, others tax the full sale price with no credit for the trade in.
The "nearly zero" value Tesla puts on the FSD trade in isn't exactly zero because there is a small incremental cost to supporting FSD on an additional vehicle. But it can be approximated as zero.
When Tesla sells the used car, it doesn't matter if it came in with FSD or not. It is a negligible cost to change a setting in the configuration. So logically it's not going to influence if that specific car is sold with FSD. They can play games with different listing prices to find the optimal price curve, which probably varies by model, age, condition and mileage.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Here are two 2016 MS 75s in California, one with FSD and one without. One is white and the other midnight silver but both have similar miles, 19” slipstream wheels, tan next gen seats, body color roof, clean histories, etc.
With FSD for $43,500
2016 Model S | Tesla
Without FSD for $43,400
2016 Model S | Tesla
Using these “real world” examples, I guess that means FSD is worth about $100 after four years.
I wonder if you could challenge Tesla to upgrade the 'Autopilot with convenience features' to 'Full Self-Driving Capability' for $100 ?
CapeOne
Active Member
Probably not. I think it's just an example of pricing irregularities that can be found among Tesla inventory cars. Sometimes you find cars which you'd expect to be similarly priced but are thousands apart and other times you find cars you'd expect to be thousands apart yet are priced similarly.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Here are two 2016 MS 75s in California, one with FSD and one without. One is white and the other midnight silver but both have similar miles, 19” slipstream wheels, tan next gen seats, body color roof, clean histories, etc.
With FSD for $43,500
2016 Model S | Tesla
Without FSD for $43,400
2016 Model S | Tesla
Using these “real world” examples, I guess that means FSD is worth about $100 after four years.
That is FSD "Capability" - i.e. the hardware.
I'm not seeing where FSD is actually activated on that first car. And I would be the second car is the old AP1 hardware.
"Full Self Driving Capability" is how Tesla labels cars with the FSD option purchased/included.
CapeOne
Active Member
No. “Full Self Driving Capability” refers to the software being included/activated. That’s what costs $8k today (soon $10k).
Yes. The second car has AP1.
Interestingly, the price of the first car with FSD has now been lowered to $43,100 which makes it LESS than the car without FSD.
The problem with this is Tesla doesn't play fair.
They don't play fair because they add FSD to a vehicle traded in to Tesla. This allows gives them somewhere around $7K of playing around with the cost of car before they lose anything. The only short term way to defeat this practice is to tell buyers who are going to buy FSD what they're doing. So the buyer can get around $7K (somewhere around this) by just rejecting FSD.
I expect the practice of adding FSD to a vehicle will stop once Tesla sells the FSD subscription. Locking people into expensive monthly subscriptions is way more preferred than just getting $3K or $4K one time.
I don't plan on selling my 2018 Model 3 with FSD anytime soon. When/if I do I will try to get as much of the $8K I paid for FSD.
If Tesla pulls off even L2 everywhere (but, really good L2) then I expect to easily get that $8K if not $10K. But, that will only happen once FSD subscriptions begin at around $200 a month or so.
Thankfully most Model 3's under lease won't come onto the market (through Tesla) until likely after FSD is offered with a subscription model.
They don't play fair because they add FSD to a vehicle traded in to Tesla. This allows gives them somewhere around $7K of playing around with the cost of car before they lose anything. The only short term way to defeat this practice is to tell buyers who are going to buy FSD what they're doing. So the buyer can get around $7K (somewhere around this) by just rejecting FSD.
I expect the practice of adding FSD to a vehicle will stop once Tesla sells the FSD subscription. Locking people into expensive monthly subscriptions is way more preferred than just getting $3K or $4K one time.
I don't plan on selling my 2018 Model 3 with FSD anytime soon. When/if I do I will try to get as much of the $8K I paid for FSD.
If Tesla pulls off even L2 everywhere (but, really good L2) then I expect to easily get that $8K if not $10K. But, that will only happen once FSD subscriptions begin at around $200 a month or so.
Thankfully most Model 3's under lease won't come onto the market (through Tesla) until likely after FSD is offered with a subscription model.
Used dealers are getting better at listing Tesla vehicles but they still don't know everything. I've found a 2019 model 3 with FSD and the Acceleration boost (the dealer showed pics of the screen that shows if those are purchased). Their price on it was almost the same as a 2018 model 3 without FSD or boost... So they are listing better, but those options make no difference in the price they sell for (yet).
As for trade-ins, the trade in value on my X is $6400 more than the last trade in estimate I got in August. No idea what's up with that...
As for trade-ins, the trade in value on my X is $6400 more than the last trade in estimate I got in August. No idea what's up with that...
