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What is it with ICE truck drivers? Is it just me.....?

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[I'm honestly curious: Why aren't I having problems with my Tesla attracting negative attention? I'm in a conservative city of a conservative county, and nearly everyone in my neighborhood has at least one pickup.

I even used my Tesla as part of my Halloween display and nobody vandalized it, and it was very busy this year. We are one of those communities where dozens of people put up massive displays.

I did not worry about my Tesla but sure as heck would not park my sportscars outside on Halloween.


(personal opinion inc, not representative of TMC etc).

I dont personally believe that labels like "conservative" or "liberal" have anything to do with stuff like this. There are plenty of people who identify as one or the other who misbehave. Plenty of "conservative" tesla drivers, and "Liberal" people who dont give a !@$@! about the environment, etc.

Your question is way more nuanced than political ideology.

(following not directed at anyone or in relation to any specific post in this thread)

I understand why people are starting to bring politics into the discussion on this topic, because of certain stereotypes, but, like most stereotypes, lumping an entire group of "anyone" together as if they all believe the same thing, or act the same way, is usually incorrect.
 
the worst drivers I have ever been around are in southern Cal, people are leaving California in droves and Arizona has been one of the targets

I lived in Arizona for over 20 yrs and recently moved out of state, I saw the writing on the wall
 
Personally, regardless of politics and any other such issues, my feeling is that ICEing is just plain rude (and occasionally even hostile), and anyone doing it should be shamed (and ashamed). The best way to address these things (other than ignoring them) imho is to politely explain that choosing a car is a personal option, and to respect that in the same way you respect their option. In my experience people quickly back down if you are polite and not confrontational.
 
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They have put the model 3 in the same category as the prius ..that's the problem..so many years of priusholes

I've always been polite to Prius owners. They suffer enough each day. I can't even imagine hating driving that much. I was stunned to find out that the drivers actually BUY them. :eek:

I thought they were a condition of parole or something. "Must drive Prius for 6 months or return to San Quentin".:oops:

;)
 
Moderator note: lots of posts in this thread are straying into political / divisive discussion. While discussion is allowed, personal attacks and partisan posts will be moved. Please try to keep discussion civil.

Just one more note on this. While I dont want to over moderate this thread, I also will do that rather than allow political disparagement directed at either side.

Final warning.
 
Waaaay back... in 1990 or so, when I was a senior in high school (and therefore still an immature kid), I had friends that drove diesel trucks (I drove a Camaro). One of the fun things to do was to pull up next to someone who appeared to be a "save the Earth-type" - typically driving a Toyota with a "save the whales" or "greenpeace" sticker and you'd deliberately bog down the diesel engine to create lots of thick black smoke. It didn't have the name "coal-rolling" yet as far as I know. So yes, when I was 17, I participated as a passenger in this seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time "prank", and it was funny at the time.

I can't really speak as to why you would feel the need to do this to someone just because they appear to care about the world. What I can say is that being 17 and hanging out with your buddies turns off any portion of your brain that makes you care. So to the World, for the times that I participated, I'm sorry.

Now, why on Earth does coal rolling still happen with truck drivers in their 30's, 40's, and 50's? Especially when you consider how much money these large trucks cost now? That I have no clue. I got over my a-holeism by the time I was 19 at the latest - - probably at the same time I had a steady girlfriend.

For the record, I've been coal-rolled 3 times since getting my Tesla last year. I'm only counting the blatant and obvious ones. I figure I'm owed a few to pay for my youthful indiscretions.

What I can't simply brush off is the 3 times I've been violently cut-off on the highway by large diesel trucks. In each scenario, a truck would approach from behind on my left and quickly cut over with no warning or signals, and only my swerving or braking would ensure my left front fender would still be attached. 2 Ford SuperDuties, 1 GMC dually Duramax. All within the first 3 months of me getting the car. How many times did this happen on the same stretch of road during my last 15 years of commuting in different cars? None that I can recall.

The most difficult part for me is that I'm a gearhead. My other cars are a Chevy Avalanche and a Pontiac G8 GT. My previous cars include multiple Camaros, multiple full size truck 4x4s, a Vette, etc...
 
Is Coal rolling etc illegal in AZ? ( say an emissions violation? )

Modifying the emissions systems to enable coal rolling is a federal crime that's basically never enforced.

There are a few jurisdictions where rolling coal in front of an officer will result in a ticket for a local or state violation., but I'm not aware of AZ being one of them. It's been a while since I was there, but it used to be only Maricopa county (Phoenix area) had any emissions checks.
 
Modifying the emissions systems to enable coal rolling is a federal crime that's basically never enforced.

There are a few jurisdictions where rolling coal in front of an officer will result in a ticket for a local or state violation., but I'm not aware of AZ being one of them. It's been a while since I was there, but it used to be only Maricopa county (Phoenix area) had any emissions checks.

and Tucson (metro areas)

I wonder if it is crime, but no one complains vs .doing it in front of cops.
 
Since Coal rolling is illegal in AZ, can we use our dashcams and report an emissions violation?

Is rolling coal illegal in Arizona? The legislation says...


Legally Speaking: Rolling coal is wrong — and illegal – VeloNews.com


I suspect this would be like someone taking a video of a person parking illegally, or trying to turn in a video of someone speeding 8-10 MPH over the speed limit. Unless accompanied by "something else" I doubt anyone could take dashcam video and "turn it in" to anyone who would care, or do anything at all.

Now, if its part of something else, like someone gets coal rolled, then 1/4 to 1/2 mile later the person swerves in front of them and either hits them or causes them to get into an accident, then I suspect it could be used as part of a "pattern of behavior". Failing that, I doubt anything citizen reported would go anywhere.

Full disclosure, I am not a lawyer, nor am I pretending to know this, just making an opinion.
 
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I can't really speak as to why you would feel the need to do this to someone just because they appear to care about the world. What I can say is that being 17 and hanging out with your buddies turns off any portion of your brain that makes you care. So to the World, for the times that I participated, I'm sorry.

Now, why on Earth does coal rolling still happen with truck drivers in their 30's, 40's, and 50's? Especially when you consider how much money these large trucks cost now? That I have no clue. I got over my a-holeism by the time I was 19 at the latest - - probably at the same time I had a steady girlfriend.

Well, basically you grew up .. and they didn't is the answer I think :)
 
Sometimes black smoke is a natural byproduct of heavy acceleration on older diesels. Sometimes it’s a natural byproduct of an asshole.

Trucks built before 2007 didn’t have the diesel particulate filters that trap and burn the soot diesels naturally produce. Even in stock trim (especially Dodges) you can get a far amount of black smoke if you stab the accelerator from a stop.

After 2008 DPFs were mandated emissions equipment.... and they were awful. The system uses a filter to capture soot, that when plugged, triggers a regen. The regen cycle uses extra diesel fuel dumped into the exhaust system to superheat the filter and turn the soot into ash. The early versions were so bad that people would delete them as soon as they could. There’s a video of a 2008 Ford diesel shooting flames out of the exhaust during the DPF regen cycle. Not to mention folks were accustomed to getting 20-24mpg were now getting 10-12mpg. I honestly blame dodge guys for this particular mandate.. the older 12 valve Cummins was a reliable engine, but damn, it would puke black smoke every time you touched the throttle.

They have perfected the diesel emissions system in the last decade and it gets better every year. These trucks have 900hp and 1000+ftlbs of torque with the emissions intact, and they still get 20mpg on a 8000lbs brick. They can also tow 30k lbs all day. There’s really no benefit to removing the emissions and modifying the software to accommodate said deletes, especially when these engines seam to operate at a barely controlled state of overload. A bad tune can trash a $15k drivetrain.

I used to own a 2006 diesel and the only time I’ve intentionally hit anyone with smoke was a large group of cyclists taking up the whole road on a two lane highway. They intentionally spread themselves so that no one could pass them. I followed them for 15 minutes and they knew I was there but they just kept their positions. I beeped the horn and one turned around and flipped me off... I thought “ok then”. When an oncoming car forced them to one side, I let the truck shift into a high gear and let it “roll”.

As a Tesla owner, so far, I am completely oblivious to other drivers Tesla hate, my wife on the other hand, points it out everywhere we go. “That guys giving us a dirty look”. Me: “Who? Wait, why do I care?”.
 
Waaaay back... in 1990 or so, when I was a senior in high school (and therefore still an immature kid), I had friends that drove diesel trucks (I drove a Camaro). One of the fun things to do was to pull up next to someone who appeared to be a "save the Earth-type" - typically driving a Toyota with a "save the whales" or "greenpeace" sticker and you'd deliberately bog down the diesel engine to create lots of thick black smoke. It didn't have the name "coal-rolling" yet as far as I know. So yes, when I was 17, I participated as a passenger in this seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time "prank", and it was funny at the time.

I can't really speak as to why you would feel the need to do this to someone just because they appear to care about the world. What I can say is that being 17 and hanging out with your buddies turns off any portion of your brain that makes you care. So to the World, for the times that I participated, I'm sorry.

Now, why on Earth does coal rolling still happen with truck drivers in their 30's, 40's, and 50's? Especially when you consider how much money these large trucks cost now? That I have no clue. I got over my a-holeism by the time I was 19 at the latest - - probably at the same time I had a steady girlfriend.

For the record, I've been coal-rolled 3 times since getting my Tesla last year. I'm only counting the blatant and obvious ones. I figure I'm owed a few to pay for my youthful indiscretions.

What I can't simply brush off is the 3 times I've been violently cut-off on the highway by large diesel trucks. In each scenario, a truck would approach from behind on my left and quickly cut over with no warning or signals, and only my swerving or braking would ensure my left front fender would still be attached. 2 Ford SuperDuties, 1 GMC dually Duramax. All within the first 3 months of me getting the car. How many times did this happen on the same stretch of road during my last 15 years of commuting in different cars? None that I can recall.

The most difficult part for me is that I'm a gearhead. My other cars are a Chevy Avalanche and a Pontiac G8 GT. My previous cars include multiple Camaros, multiple full size truck 4x4s, a Vette, etc...
Your post made an interesting point. I wonder if there are two issues at play: one, coal-rolling towards vehicles considered eco, like EVs and hybrids; and two, the swerving and possible brake-checking behavior, which might be animosity to Teslas for prior phantom braking incidents? You can't expect everyone to know that Tesla's TACC has issues, and you can't expect other drivers to be sympathetic.
 
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Sometimes black smoke is a natural byproduct of heavy acceleration on older diesels. Sometimes it’s a natural byproduct of an asshole.

Trucks built before 2007 didn’t have the diesel particulate filters that trap and burn the soot diesels naturally produce. Even in stock trim (especially Dodges) you can get a far amount of black smoke if you stab the accelerator from a stop.

After 2008 DPFs were mandated emissions equipment.... and they were awful. The system uses a filter to capture soot, that when plugged, triggers a regen. The regen cycle uses extra diesel fuel dumped into the exhaust system to superheat the filter and turn the soot into ash. The early versions were so bad that people would delete them as soon as they could. There’s a video of a 2008 Ford diesel shooting flames out of the exhaust during the DPF regen cycle. Not to mention folks were accustomed to getting 20-24mpg were now getting 10-12mpg. I honestly blame dodge guys for this particular mandate.. the older 12 valve Cummins was a reliable engine, but damn, it would puke black smoke every time you touched the throttle.

They have perfected the diesel emissions system in the last decade and it gets better every year. These trucks have 900hp and 1000+ftlbs of torque with the emissions intact, and they still get 20mpg on a 8000lbs brick. They can also tow 30k lbs all day. There’s really no benefit to removing the emissions and modifying the software to accommodate said deletes, especially when these engines seam to operate at a barely controlled state of overload. A bad tune can trash a $15k drivetrain.

I used to own a 2006 diesel and the only time I’ve intentionally hit anyone with smoke was a large group of cyclists taking up the whole road on a two lane highway. They intentionally spread themselves so that no one could pass them. I followed them for 15 minutes and they knew I was there but they just kept their positions. I beeped the horn and one turned around and flipped me off... I thought “ok then”. When an oncoming car forced them to one side, I let the truck shift into a high gear and let it “roll”.

As a Tesla owner, so far, I am completely oblivious to other drivers Tesla hate, my wife on the other hand, points it out everywhere we go. “That guys giving us a dirty look”. Me: “Who? Wait, why do I care?”.
With cyclists, there are two schools of thought; one, you try to ride as close to the road edge as possible and impede vehicles as little as possible. However, when you do that, most vehicles will slow a little and give you 3ft of space and pass, respectfully; but it only takes one jerk who blows by without slowing, and only a foot away, and a honk, to scare you, to make you think the safest approach is the other way. And that way, is to ride two abreast, across the width of the road, and FORCE the following vehicles to slow, and pass, in the other lane, when safe. Bikes are entitled to the road, and an accident puts the cyclist's life at risk, so they feel it's only a tiny inconvenience to force the driver to slow, before passing. You see motorcyclists take this strategy as well. It's just safer for the vehicle on 2 wheels, when they know the car or truck has to slow to make the safe pass.
 
With cyclists, there are two schools of thought; one, you try to ride as close to the road edge as possible and impede vehicles as little as possible. However, when you do that, most vehicles will slow a little and give you 3ft of space and pass, respectfully; but it only takes one jerk who blows by without slowing, and only a foot away, and a honk, to scare you, to make you think the safest approach is the other way. And that way, is to ride two abreast, across the width of the road, and FORCE the following vehicles to slow, and pass, in the other lane, when safe. Bikes are entitled to the road, and an accident puts the cyclist's life at risk, so they feel it's only a tiny inconvenience to force the driver to slow, before passing. You see motorcyclists take this strategy as well. It's just safer for the vehicle on 2 wheels, when they know the car or truck has to slow to make the safe pass.

That makes sense. These guys were taking up the entire highway, I thought they’d tighten up a little to allow me to pass after a few minutes, but they’d hang out in the other lane unless there was a car coming the other direction. Never had an issue with cyclists before or after, just a bad group I guess. I do agree it’s very dangerous to be on a bicycle on a 55mph highway, you won’t catch me doing that.
 
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Sometimes black smoke is a natural byproduct of heavy acceleration on older diesels. Sometimes it’s a natural byproduct of an asshole.

Trucks built before 2007 didn’t have the diesel particulate filters that trap and burn the soot diesels naturally produce. Even in stock trim (especially Dodges) you can get a far amount of black smoke if you stab the accelerator from a stop.

After 2008 DPFs were mandated emissions equipment.... and they were awful. The system uses a filter to capture soot, that when plugged, triggers a regen. The regen cycle uses extra diesel fuel dumped into the exhaust system to superheat the filter and turn the soot into ash. The early versions were so bad that people would delete them as soon as they could. There’s a video of a 2008 Ford diesel shooting flames out of the exhaust during the DPF regen cycle. Not to mention folks were accustomed to getting 20-24mpg were now getting 10-12mpg. I honestly blame dodge guys for this particular mandate.. the older 12 valve Cummins was a reliable engine, but damn, it would puke black smoke every time you touched the throttle.

They have perfected the diesel emissions system in the last decade and it gets better every year. These trucks have 900hp and 1000+ftlbs of torque with the emissions intact, and they still get 20mpg on a 8000lbs brick. They can also tow 30k lbs all day. There’s really no benefit to removing the emissions and modifying the software to accommodate said deletes, especially when these engines seam to operate at a barely controlled state of overload. A bad tune can trash a $15k drivetrain.

I used to own a 2006 diesel and the only time I’ve intentionally hit anyone with smoke was a large group of cyclists taking up the whole road on a two lane highway. They intentionally spread themselves so that no one could pass them. I followed them for 15 minutes and they knew I was there but they just kept their positions. I beeped the horn and one turned around and flipped me off... I thought “ok then”. When an oncoming car forced them to one side, I let the truck shift into a high gear and let it “roll”.

As a Tesla owner, so far, I am completely oblivious to other drivers Tesla hate, my wife on the other hand, points it out everywhere we go. “That guys giving us a dirty look”. Me: “Who? Wait, why do I care?”.


You are in the middle of the Permian basin though, esp. these days when we're in the middle of gas " transition" I remember the saying "what's the black stuff / smell in the air", " money"
 
Even in EV-happy California, I'm keenly aware of what Tesla represents to many. Not actual facts, just the symbolism for the knee-jerk crowd. Everyone assumes we're Leftist greenies with a hard on for kale and tofu as we tool around in our Zero-Emissions vehicles in vegan leather seats.

Here are the factors I think cause a self-selected profile of drivers to react negatively to Tesla drivers. Note, this is my own observation of a trend or patterns of behavior. Obviously there are exceptions to this and I'm not attempting to speak in absolutes here. Most people guessing at my political ideas from my car would probably get a lot wrong.

1. The recent election went Biden's way. People are still upset about this. Some people still think there were shenanigans. Nothing is set in stone yet in the minds of some. Your Tesla is a locus of that frustration for those who assume a lot, or have ideas about Tesla drivers and our political persuasions.

2. Die-hard ICE cars may dislike us, or feel threatened by EVs, and want to posture and show dominance. It's male (usually) posturing and it has everything to do with perception. You're the EV-driving Lefty (in their minds) and although we're obviously of different political persuasions, this is all it takes for some.

3. Boy racer types don't (necessarily) hate us but do want to see what our car is capable-of. This is more true if they know what you're driving or know you're in a Performance vehicle. Maybe they want to 'beat a Tesla'. Now, the truck example is way too aggressive for a friendly impromptu speed contest, but I've seen a lot of this posturing from muscle car drivers (Chargers and Camaros) and the occasional BMW, Civic Si or SiR, Suby, and any number of hot hatches. Often the invitation is a close pass (close to your rear end) which is meant to incite some type of response. It's a shot across the stern, if you will.

4. Some people think you're rich/wealthy and hate you for that reason. This is sad because so many of us had to work our bums off to get the cars we have.

5. Some people are just crazy or venting their vehicular spleen and driving like morons everywhere and tailgating everyone.

Either way, it's definitely not just your imagination playing tricks on you and I don't think it's your driving, because slow drivers will attract road rage from everyone if they clog the 'fast' lanes. I experienced the same thing when I drove a smart car or a FIAT 500 Abarth. In the smart, people tried to 'push me around' due to being so tiny. Intimidation techniques. In the Abarth, I attracted boy-racer types trying to goad me in to a contest, usually a friendly contest though.

Road rage is a separate phenomenon that won't necessarily be related to profiling. The truck in the aforementioned example is basically engaging in aggressive male posturing in a dominance display and displaying contempt and disrespect. You'd be hard pressed to find stories of this type of posturing from females, though I'm not saying it never happens.

Well said. I haven't seen that kind of crazy, unsafe driving here in ME, but it likely happens sometimes. A few high-end ICE cars have cut in front of me and tried to show off, but I know I'm in the best car on the road. I just drive along and ignore the jerks.
 
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