Is there a thread that summarizes/tracks everything we've been told by EM/JB/other primary sources? If not, let's start one here.
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wallet.dat
Member
Known:
Motor will be an iteration of the front motor used in the Model S "D" cars, which is said to be far more efficient than the S's older rear motor.
It'll be about 20% smaller than the Model S.
It will have a range of at least 200 miles.
Safe Assumption:
Will be offered in 2WD and AWD layouts. The former most likely being RWD.
All trim levels will have a range of at least 200 miles.
Performance approaching (and possibly exceeding) that of current P90DL.
Motor will be an iteration of the front motor used in the Model S "D" cars, which is said to be far more efficient than the S's older rear motor.
It'll be about 20% smaller than the Model S.
It will have a range of at least 200 miles.
Safe Assumption:
Will be offered in 2WD and AWD layouts. The former most likely being RWD.
All trim levels will have a range of at least 200 miles.
Performance approaching (and possibly exceeding) that of current P90DL.
Known is it will be revealed 3/31. We don't know the range (only that Elon considers 200 real world miles to be the minimum for a market-viable EV, but Elon doesn't have total control of the design) or that it will be 20% smaller. Elon said "We're aiming to produce a car smaller than the Model S, maybe 20% smaller".
He did say AWD would be an option (no timeframe). I (personally) don't think there's any safe assumptions about the performance. I think price will trump performance at every design decision, at least for the base model. The EV motor gets you a good deal of performance vs an ICE car so it's going to be impressive to those of us coming from other makes, but I wouldn't expect a car to perform as well as another car made by the same company that costs 3X as much.
He did say AWD would be an option (no timeframe). I (personally) don't think there's any safe assumptions about the performance. I think price will trump performance at every design decision, at least for the base model. The EV motor gets you a good deal of performance vs an ICE car so it's going to be impressive to those of us coming from other makes, but I wouldn't expect a car to perform as well as another car made by the same company that costs 3X as much.
I think this is a great idea for a thread, but we should be posting sources for the various statements for future reference.
JB statements Tesla Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel Discusses Model 3
- Its about the size of an A4
- It has "next generation" Tesla tech
Also a JB quote: “We don’t really need more performance, we don’t really need much more range, we need to focus on cost”
Elon statements:
Elon Musk: Global Model 3 Reservations ($1,000 Down) Accepted On March 31
- No signature series
- $1000 down in stores March 31, online April 1 globally
Tesla Model 3 Debuts March 31st, Higher Options Cars Made First
- Highly optioned cars will be made first
-"[The Model 3] will be way different from any other car on the road," says Musk. But, "in a way that's really useful and just doesn't feel like a weird-mobile." (​Elon Musk Says Tesla Model 3 Will Cost $35,000 Before Incentives)
-“I really want the Model 3 to be different, not just a smaller Model S,” said Musk. The Model 3 will be 20 percent smaller than the Model S. Tesla Model 3 | PluginCars.com
JB statements Tesla Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel Discusses Model 3
- Its about the size of an A4
- It has "next generation" Tesla tech
Also a JB quote: “We don’t really need more performance, we don’t really need much more range, we need to focus on cost”
Elon statements:
Elon Musk: Global Model 3 Reservations ($1,000 Down) Accepted On March 31
- No signature series
- $1000 down in stores March 31, online April 1 globally
Tesla Model 3 Debuts March 31st, Higher Options Cars Made First
- Highly optioned cars will be made first
-"[The Model 3] will be way different from any other car on the road," says Musk. But, "in a way that's really useful and just doesn't feel like a weird-mobile." (​Elon Musk Says Tesla Model 3 Will Cost $35,000 Before Incentives)
-“I really want the Model 3 to be different, not just a smaller Model S,” said Musk. The Model 3 will be 20 percent smaller than the Model S. Tesla Model 3 | PluginCars.com
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
Elon is the CEO. Tesla is not a democracy. Of course Elon has total control of the design.
Elon has said Model 3's percentage of aluminum content will be less than Model S.
Elon has bactracked off the Model 3 will be unlike any other car on the road to Tesla is leaning toward a less "adventurous design."
Tesla spokeswoman: (Will the Tesla Model 3 Really Sell for $25,000? - Bloomberg Business)
- "We can confirm it's $35,000 before incentives," a Tesla spokeswoman, Khobi Brooklyn, told Bloomberg. "We haven't changed our minds."
Elon:
$35,000 Tesla Model III Will Be Unveiled in March 2016 for 2017
-@elonmusk $35k price, unveil in March, preorders start then.
- "We can confirm it's $35,000 before incentives," a Tesla spokeswoman, Khobi Brooklyn, told Bloomberg. "We haven't changed our minds."
Elon:
$35,000 Tesla Model III Will Be Unveiled in March 2016 for 2017
-@elonmusk $35k price, unveil in March, preorders start then.
MTN Ranger
Member
Some news today:
http://insideevs.com/analyst-note-new-details-on-tesla-model-3/
“The official unveiling will be March 31, 2016, in Hawthorn, California, and according to recent research Chowdhry gathered after attending numerous Deep Learning Hackathons, the Autonomous Driving Symposium, the Material Science Symposium and the Battery Technology Summit, production and deliveries for the Model 3 are likely to be on schedule.”
“Chowdhry explained two elements of the Model 3 that are unique and support the timeline for vehicle delivery by 2017: The vehicle architecture and composition.”
“Vehicle Architecture: Chowdhry stated that the Model 3 will have “completely different vehicle architecture – both the chassis and the battery chemistry – hence will have different power density and energy density trade off.”
“Vehicle Composition: Unlike the Model X and Model S, the Model 3 body and chassis will be completely built of steel as opposed to aluminum. Chowdhry highlighted the key advantages of steel over aluminum as being the lower production equipment costs, the lower worker training/skill needed to work/operate steel, the lower compensation and cost savings of steel workers versus aluminum workers, and the lower repair costs.”
http://insideevs.com/analyst-note-new-details-on-tesla-model-3/
“The official unveiling will be March 31, 2016, in Hawthorn, California, and according to recent research Chowdhry gathered after attending numerous Deep Learning Hackathons, the Autonomous Driving Symposium, the Material Science Symposium and the Battery Technology Summit, production and deliveries for the Model 3 are likely to be on schedule.”
“Chowdhry explained two elements of the Model 3 that are unique and support the timeline for vehicle delivery by 2017: The vehicle architecture and composition.”
“Vehicle Architecture: Chowdhry stated that the Model 3 will have “completely different vehicle architecture – both the chassis and the battery chemistry – hence will have different power density and energy density trade off.”
“Vehicle Composition: Unlike the Model X and Model S, the Model 3 body and chassis will be completely built of steel as opposed to aluminum. Chowdhry highlighted the key advantages of steel over aluminum as being the lower production equipment costs, the lower worker training/skill needed to work/operate steel, the lower compensation and cost savings of steel workers versus aluminum workers, and the lower repair costs.”
Found it - was in an earnings call: "We got quite adventurous with the (Model) X," Musk said during a financial call on Wednesday. "We won't go super crazy with the design of the initial version of the (Model) 3." Elon Musk: First Model 3 cars will be less 'adventurous' than Model X
Has anyone found more recent quotes for the 200 mile range on the Model 3? I can only find one from 3 years ago.
Edit, found one: “200 miles is minimum threshold for an electric car. We need 200+ miles in real world. Not 200 miles in ‘AC off, driving on flat road’ mode.” “Anything below 200 miles isn’t passing grade. Most people looking for 20% more than that.” Musk: Tesla Model 3 Must Have 200 Miles Or More “In Real World†| CleanTechnica
Another gem from an annual shareholder meeting: Elon Musk: Two-Wheel Drive To Be Standard On Tesla Model 3, AWD An Option
Elon: “In order to keep the car as affordable as possible, the standard version of the car would have single motor, but we’ll offer dual motor as an option.”
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Thanks for this!
Now, would you or anyone else be able to explain in layman's terms what the "different power density and energy density trade off" might mean, practically, to someone who wants a Model 3 and has driven a Model S?
Trev Page
Member
Chowdhry hasn't revealed anything new that's not already known. He's spouting stuff that Tesla management have spoken about publicly many times.
I will add this but however that seems to be missing in discussions about Model 3: given the car will be smaller than a Model S, Tesla has stated the cells will be a bit bigger than the 18650s in use currently (think 20700). On the order of 10% bigger in volume which should result in about a 33% increase in storage density. This slightly larger cell will make up for the smaller pack that has to go into the car so as to offer similar battery capacities offered on the Model S. It's the massive economies of scale with this new format made in the US for the same if not less than an 18650 which is the magic sauce.
I will add this but however that seems to be missing in discussions about Model 3: given the car will be smaller than a Model S, Tesla has stated the cells will be a bit bigger than the 18650s in use currently (think 20700). On the order of 10% bigger in volume which should result in about a 33% increase in storage density. This slightly larger cell will make up for the smaller pack that has to go into the car so as to offer similar battery capacities offered on the Model S. It's the massive economies of scale with this new format made in the US for the same if not less than an 18650 which is the magic sauce.
As Trev mentioned, he is commenting on the new battery format. That format allows for maximizing the power and energy density. The new format also saves in cost. Altogether, it allows for a minimum of 30% increase in density over the original Model S batteries while reducing cost by 30% as well. We have heard that the chemistry and format can be up to 50% better. I only heard that once from Elon. I wouldn't count on it.
Quick hi-jack if I may,
Complete battery tech newb here... Can you explain to me (perhaps like I'm 5 as the internet loves to do) why if increasing them 10% in size yields a 33% density increase (or just a generic X% size increase yields y% density increase), why dont they increase them in size by more than that? Obviously there is a reason, or many, I'm just not educated enough to know it. Why dont they double the size of the cell?
Brad_SC
Member
Long story short, they are saying that the size and weight of the battery vs how much KWH are in it will be different than in the current batteries.
I won't try to explain Power and Energy to anyone... they are simple concepts that I find nearly impossible to explain, haha.
I'm not a battery scientist, but my understanding from the various sources is:
The 10% increase in size allows for a more balanced application of the new chemistry. There are a number of factors and heat is a real critical one. The larger size gives more surface for cooling. Tesla went with the original 18650 format because it was a size that was already mass produced. Back then, Tesla didn't have the power to adjust anything. Now that they are one of the largest, if not the largest user/buyer of batteries in the world they have a lot more say in what they do to their battery. For the chemistry that they use they say that a slightly larger format will work best.
Trev Page
Member
