What is Tesla Motors' biggest flaw/challenge?

[Teslawisher]

+1 to El Uh oh's 20,000 unit sales dilemma. If the majors are not sell that many a year, how can Tesla sustain sales once the early adopters are tapped out?

The natural progression of new products acceptance will take it's normal approach. The Early majority folks will come (build it and they will come ) after they see the early adopters accepting the new technology. This is going to be where the next round of sales will come from. This happens with practically any new product, regardless of brand, and there isn't anything I can see (but I'm no economist) to say that this normal, accepted, and proven adoption flow of consumers won't apply to Tesla.

Of course, this is just in terms of where new customers will come from. Tesla still needs to market to get them in the door or face potentially losing those sales.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

second issue for me is quality... the Model S beta that was in Geneva was a long way from being worth the projected price point

 

[Robert.Boston]

second issue for me is quality... the Model S beta that was in Geneva was a long way from being worth the projected price point

The build quality isn't there yet on the betas, which is one reason I didn't bring my wife to the recent Beta tour-stop here in Boston. Tesla took a risk--knowingly--in allowing consumers access to prototypes. A good call, inasmuch as it dismissed any concerns that the Model S is vaporware. But the downside is people using the prototype as an indicator of final build quality, which it isn't. [See Volker.Berlin's excellent write-up about the Geneva show and his discussions there with Tesla staff, over on the main boards.]

Still, while getting the build quality right is essential, I believe that the team they have fully understands what these standards are and how to achieve them. My concerns are a little further down the road, with Tesla's ability to manage growth.

 

[Norbert]

Because of the extremely rural nature of the places I go for my summer hiking. But I probably should have said "Not while I am still driving."

Are there any gas stations? Once electric cars become a relevant part of our economy, I don't think it will require a lot of effort (relatively to that scale) to have as many fast chargers as gas stations. Granted, in some areas it will happen sooner than in others, perhaps we are talking about 7 - 20 years for a complete coverage, depending for example on political determination.

That would indeed be a game-changer. Fast charging would no longer be needed. But it's not a trivial matter. Building an affordable 400 or 500-mile battery could prove more difficult than it seems. However, this would be my most optimistic outcome.

Not sure if you would consider the current 300 mile battery "affordable", but I could imagine a 400 mile battery in 3-4 years and a 500 mile battery (it seems those highways aren't high speed) in 5-7 years. So if you buy a 300 mile battery soon, your next upgrade/replacement might be 500 miles (at perhaps a lower cost additionally).

My understanding is that Tesla intends to do just this, with the next car after the Model X. And I think they can compete on quality. I think I did list competition with bigger companies as one of the challenges. But I think that Tesla is up to the challenge. If they cannot move into the lower-cost segment, they'll always be a low-volume niche car maker, and I don't think that is their intention.

Increasingly affordable, yes, however with longer range and fast charging. Not in order to compete with EVs from bigger companies, but in order to compete with ICEs.

Right now, if I was picking the small company most likely to succeed, I'd pick Tesla. I think the challenges are very real and very difficult. And I think Tesla can do it. I would not have bought my Roadster if I didn't think the company would be around for the long term to service it.

Same here with a Model S. It won't happen automatically, but it will provided Tesla is innovative and dedicated, and that the world progresses in a sane enough manner in general.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

See Volker.Berlin's excellent write-up about the Geneva show and his discussions there with Tesla staff, over on the main boards.

I did.... I suggest you talk to Tesla staff off the record if you want to understand the reality on the ground.

 

[onlinespending]

second issue for me is quality... the Model S beta that was in Geneva was a long way from being worth the projected price point

I'm curious how you guys have come to the conclusion that the build quality isn't there? Was it anything specific? Or did you just not like the look of it, like the plain center console, and consider that to be poor build quality? There certainly were some unfinished aspects of it (the steering column was not adjustable for instance), and maybe the center console needs more polish. But discerning build quality of a car without actually driving it is impossible. To me, it's only once you drive a car can you make such a claim. Does the interior paneling creak when driven? Is it a quiet drive? Handling and safety are also obviously a reflection of build quality, and the Model S may very well achieve 5-star safety rating across the board.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I'm curious how you guys have come to the conclusion that the build quality isn't there?

the car we sat in was neither close to production ready nor worth anything like the price point that it's intended to sell at. You only need to compare it to other cars at the show to realise just how far it has to go.

A number of people commented on this including existing Tesla owners, young and older people, and both sexes... a good cross section of people IMO.

Everyone was impressed by the concepts behind the car when that was explained but few felt the car was exceptional to sit in or look at.

 

[smorgasbord]

... few felt the car was exceptional to sit in or look at.

My prediction: just wait until the test drive.

 

[onlinespending]

the car we sat in was neither close to production ready nor worth anything like the price point that it's intended to sell at. You only need to compare it to other cars at the show to realise just how far it has to go.

A number of people commented on this including existing Tesla owners, young and older people, and both sexes... a good cross section of people IMO.

Everyone was impressed by the concepts behind the car when that was explained but few felt the car was exceptional to sit in or look at.

I have no doubt that others share your opinion, but you'll need to do better than that. What specifically did you find not production worthy? I think few would argue that the Model S isn't stunning from the outside. Which means the only area that isn't worthy would be the interior. And while I agree that there needs to be some improvements on the interior (again, the plain center console comes to mind), there was nothing alarming. If anything, it's hard not to step into another car after seeing the Model S's 17" screen and not feel as if it is cheap and outdated.

 

[strider]

I know someone whose Prius battery died days before the warranty expired. So I can understand the concerns about batteries, but Tesla has resolved that with their 8 year warranty.

I find the battery warranty worthless as the only thing it is guaranteed to cover is if the battery goes completely dead through no fault of the owner within the time period. There are no details about reduction in capacity/range in there and that will cause a lot of people to be nervous about EV's. I've had my Roadster for ~15 months and 15k miles and I'm down to 182 on a standard charge. I realize there are a ton of very complex variables that would be tough to put into a contract (how often someone range or fast charges, time spent at high or low SOC, etc.) and some of this will come with experience (we Roadster owners are guinea pigs here) but the more confidence manufacturers can instill into prospective buyers the quicker the adoption will happen.

 

[strider]

I have no doubt that others share your opinion, but you'll need to do better than that. What specifically did you find not production worthy? I think few would argue that the Model S isn't stunning from the outside. Which means the only area that isn't worthy would be the interior. And while I agree that there needs to be some improvements on the interior (again, the plain center console comes to mind), there was nothing alarming. If anything, it's hard not to step into another car after seeing the Model S's 17" screen and not feel as if it is cheap and outdated.

The seats were uncomfortable and the leather was loose-fitting. The interior door panels weren't firmly fastened to the outer so when you tried to close the door from the inside the inner panel would separate from the door and then the door would start to close (and as someone with kids I'm not a fan of the beta inner door handle - I can see that being filled with Cheerios in no time). The steering wheel and column controls were/are horrible. However, I know that this is a beta vehicle and that the interior is one of the easiest (from a technological standpoint) things to deal with and so I agree with Tesla to worry about that last and focus on a well-driving and safe car first but there were huge problems w/ the beta interior on what will be a $95k car for me. As others have said they took a risk showing betas and it was likely a mixed bag. They probably added some reservations as people realized the cars were real but others could have been turned off by the interior fit and finish. Once the cars are released this will be forgotten as we will have production cars to judge and people will either put down their money or not. Anything between now and July is just keyboard quarterbacking.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

What specifically did you find not production worthy?

The fit and finish was very poor for a car of this price point. Trim was falling off inside and out. The door handles have a large gap around them and feel clunky to use. The charge port was difficult to open. The switch gear was at odds with the rest of the cars design. Don't get me started on the wooden dash...

If anything, it's hard not to step into another car after seeing the Model S's 17" screen and not feel as if it is cheap and outdated.

I feel the complete opposite... the 17" screen looks horrible when compared to some of the beautifully engineered and functional interiors of other cars. I also hate the way that such a large flat surface is at odds with all the curves in the car.

 

[EVNow]

I have no doubt that others share your opinion, but you'll need to do better than that. What specifically did you find not production worthy?

Here is one more opinion.

Carlos Ghosn, the Undisputed Electric Car Leader in Geneva | PluginCars.com

The Tesla Model S was in Switzerland, but it proved to be a huge disappointment. With the car scheduled to be available in about three months, many had expected to see a production version, but the car on display was far from that. The two, small, rear-facing, third-row seats are strictly for children, and the back seat didn't look much more inviting. And I haven't seen a rear bench seat without a middle armrest for years. Seats have fixed headrests which looked far too low. I'm a normal guy, but at 6'3" I can't fit in the back seat of a Tesla Model S. A BMW 3-Series is much roomier. Then there are design faults - when the door is closed, it bumps the dashboard.

Obviously, Tesla means well. They've chosen good materials, but the build quality is terrible, much below that of a base Chevrolet Sonic. Of course, this is entirely excusable since the car on display in Geneva was not a regular production model. But it was surprising to find out there's so much left to do to make the car worthy of its pricetag

 

[onlinespending]

The fit and finish was very poor for a car of this price point. Trim was falling off inside and out. The door handles have a large gap around them and feel clunky to use. The charge port was difficult to open. The switch gear was at odds with the rest of the cars design. Don't get me started on the wooden dash...

Well if trim was actually falling off, that's something that would not make it to the production version. As much as I'd love to see some major improvements with the interior, I'm afraid the look is likely here to stay. I'm sure they'll clean up some of the quality issues (loose fitting items, gaps, etc.) that you mention, but I wouldn't hold my breath for much more than that.

I feel the complete opposite... the 17" screen looks horrible when compared to some of the beautifully engineered and functional interiors of other cars. I also hate the way that such a large flat surface is at odds with all the curves in the car.

Well clearly you are not a fan of the screen, which is going to sour your impression of the interior. I too sometimes wonder if its too big for its own good, as if it's almost an eye soar. But it does have the benefit of creating a very clean, sleek look. Gone are all the buttons, knobs, etc, which look quite antiquated in many respects in other cars. I don't want my car's dash looking like mission control.

 

[EVNow]

Some makers that offer a free loaner
BMW
Lexus
Audi
Infiniti

A mom & pop auto service near my place has free loaners. It is much easier to do this, than one might think. They have linked up with a nearby Enterprise rent-a-car. if a mon&pop shop can do it, tesla can too.

 

[onlinespending]

Here is one more opinion.

Carlos Ghosn, the Undisputed Electric Car Leader in Geneva | PluginCars.com

well a 2012 BMW 3-series does have 1" more rear headroom, but 1.5" less rear legroom. So it's by no means "much roomier" as this guy says. In the case of rear legroom, it's less roomy than a Model S. So to me he's already lost a bit of credibility.

 

[ckessel]

Interior is going to be a pretty big deal since all of the reservations have been made without seeing a final interior. A good many of these folks are going to be comparing the S against Audi and BMW's with great fit and finish, so if the S doesn't compete in that arena they'll lose folks at essentially the last minute. I have some faith Tesla will do a good job as they've done a pretty good job in general, but in my mind it's something of the final hurdle to clear in terms of the car competing in it's class.

 

[Norbert]

the car we sat in was neither close to production ready nor worth anything like the price point that it's intended to sell at. You only need to compare it to other cars at the show to realise just how far it has to go.

Regarding being production ready, it was probably built before the October event last year. We might see newer betas this weekend. Comparing the dashboard to that of other cars, one needs to keep in mind that a lot of its functionality is "hidden" in the 17" touchscreen, some of it also available via smartphone.

Everyone was impressed by the concepts behind the car when that was explained but few felt the car was exceptional to sit in or look at.

I wouldn't expect it too look "exceptional" among the flashiness of dozens of concept cars in stylized exhibition setups.

 

[onlinespending]

A mom & pop auto service near my place has free loaners. It is much easier to do this, than one might think. They have linked up with a nearby Enterprise rent-a-car. if a mon&pop shop can do it, tesla can too.

exactly. I don't expect them to have Tesla loaners, but they should team up with a rental car company and cover the cost.

 

[Robert.Boston]

The real deal will be the two new Betas that Tesla shows at Santana Row this weekend. While these aren't RC, they should show substantial progress in important pieces of the interior design and build quality.