What is the current lead time for Power Wall installation?

[voip-ninja]

I discovered today that for 2019 there is still a 30% tax credit that covers installation of Power Wall or other similar energy storage products as long as it's attached to a solar panel installation that I own, and I do own a 30 panel Kyocera system with a Fronius inverter.

What's the current lead time on installation if I order? Is a deposit required?

I would need at least two power walls and possibly three as I want this to function as partial backup during a grid outage on a 3500 square foot home. The power walls would need to supply backup power to my 50 amp sub-panel that drives most of my 120V interior circuits as well as back up of a couple of other 120V circuits on my main panel. No 240V backup is really required as I don't need the system to charge my car during an outage.

One question I don't have a clear answer on is if installation would allow for my grid-tie PV to continue operating during a long term power outage as this would be a key thing for making a decision. Currently like all grid-tied PV systems it shuts off immediately during a power fluctuation or loss of power.

 

[cwied]

I think the lead time is very regional right now. Maybe somebody in Colorado will answer.

To answer your question: yes, one of the primary functions of the Powerwalls is to allow the PV to function when the grid is down. There are some caveats, however. If the Powerwalls don't think they are able to accept the full output of your PV, they will shift frequency to shut the inverter down. In addition, if they're discharged fully they may have trouble starting up again when the sun returns, particularly when it's cold out. On the other hand, I've experienced one power outage where the Powerwalls took over and then charged up to 100% from my solar output during the rest of the day.

See these threads for more discussion:
PowerWall Cold Start without Grid Power
Powerwall/Solar Edge behavior in power outage

 

[dutchinchicago]

I ordered mine November 2016. Still waiting. But that is in Illinois.

 

[bmah]

I'm in the SF Bay Area, with solar installed by Solar City about 8-ish years ago. I reserved (on the Tesla Web site) for 3 Powerwalls 21 November 2018, confirmed the order 7 January 2019, and had installation 8 March 2019. There was a $500 deposit due at reservation time, with the balance due after installation.

Bruce.

 

[voip-ninja]

I think the lead time is very regional right now. Maybe somebody in Colorado will answer.

To answer your question: yes, one of the primary functions of the Powerwalls is to allow the PV to function when the grid is down. There are some caveats, however. If the Powerwalls don't think they are able to accept the full output of your PV, they will shift frequency to shut the inverter down. In addition, if they're discharged fully they may have trouble starting up again when the sun returns, particularly when it's cold out. On the other hand, I've experienced one power outage where the Powerwalls took over and then charged up to 100% from my solar output during the rest of the day.

See these threads for more discussion:
PowerWall Cold Start without Grid Power
Powerwall/Solar Edge behavior in power outage

This is good information. Probably have to do some more information. Max output from my PV is 30 amps so I would think 2-3 power walls would have no problem charging from it during an outage.

Being able to use my PV & power walls for the basics (furnace fan/blower, refrigeration and essential electronics) during a sustained power outage is pretty much the key selling points for me as I'm locked into an arrangement with my utility that will make it difficult to use powerwall to take advantage of rate shifting for at least the next decade.

While we don't get power outages too often, we have had times when it's been down for nearly 24 hours. During a recent blizzard there were homes that were down for 1-2 days and that would suck.

 

[gnumeric]

I reserved 3 powerwalls when I was in the process of also getting my solar system from Tesla back in June 2018. Last month (Feb 2019) I got an email from Tesla that my powerwalls were ready. Installation is scheduled for April 2019. I'm in the California Bay Area.

Seems like they're ramping up powerwalls now.

 

[voip-ninja]

I reserved 3 powerwalls when I was in the process of also getting my solar system from Tesla back in June 2018. Last month (Feb 2019) I got an email from Tesla that my powerwalls were ready. Installation is scheduled for April 2019. I'm in the California Bay Area.

Seems like they're ramping up powerwalls now.

So, I already have solar and would just be interested in a quote on what the installation fees would be to get powerwalls put in. When I visit the Tesla website it just wants me to make a deposit and they will contact me later with the details.

I don't want to make a deposit until I get a better understanding of how 2-3 power walls can cover a portion of my home's load and what the installation cost will be.

I have a main panel on the exterior of the house with 200amp service and quite a few open breakers. I have a nice conduit run that goes from there into the basement where I have a completely full 50 amp sub-panel that has my solar as well as the bulk of the interior circuits (all of the 240V stuff is on the main panel).

I have another sub-panel that I installed for my garage that has 16 breaker slots, which I populated with my 50amp breaker I used for my HPWC as well as a surge supressor... so I have 12 slots left in that panel and ideally that panel could be used down the road if I ever finished out my 1500 square foot basement.

Install costs for me could be on the cheap side or could be hideously expensive if Tesla needed to do something elaborate.

Do they hire subs to do the electrical work or do they have their own installers for that? How do you get in touch with them to get a quote?

 

[gnumeric]

A Tesla Energy sales advisor emailed me the same day I took delivery of my car. I must have mentioned being interested in solar to my delivery advisor.

During our discussions, she told me that the powerwalls were on a long backorder (months+) but that she could put in a "depositless" reservation for them if I wanted. Of course, I said yes since it didn't require any deposit. Good decision since this locked in the old pricing ($5900 per powerwall, $700 for the gateway... now it's $6700/powerwall + $1100 gateway).

If I were you, I'd just call up the support number for Tesla Energy. There is probably an option for sales. Or if you want, I could PM you my sales advisor's contact info. I'm sure they'll be able to answer all your questions and maybe even put a depositless reservation if there is still a long backorder of powerwalls.

 

[voip-ninja]

A Tesla Energy sales advisor emailed me the same day I took delivery of my car. I must have mentioned being interested in solar to my delivery advisor.

During our discussions, she told me that the powerwalls were on a long backorder (months+) but that she could put in a "depositless" reservation for them if I wanted. Of course, I said yes since it didn't require any deposit. Good decision since this locked in the old pricing ($5900 per powerwall, $700 for the gateway... now it's $6700/powerwall + $1100 gateway).

If I were you, I'd just call up the support number for Tesla Energy. There is probably an option for sales. Or if you want, I could PM you my sales advisor's contact info. I'm sure they'll be able to answer all your questions and maybe even put a depositless reservation if there is still a long backorder of powerwalls.

I have no problem calling Tesla Energy and seeing what I can find out.

Thanks for the information, I had been waiting for PowerWall pack capacity to further increase which would reduce the # of units I need to get what I want accomplished, did not realize there were still tax savings to be had by purchasing now vs waiting.

 

[Aljohn]

I recently sent an inquiry on my power wall/solar roof order from 2017 to see if I could get the power wall installed in while awaiting the Solar Roof Tiles. Nothing, Nada, no response. With the demand for 3's, the Semi , Y, and Roadster coming, Power Pack installs, it seems the Gigafactory is still behind production demand. Who would have thought when Tela started the Gigafactory with its scope and size it would insufficient to meet battery demand. Well, I waiting 3 years for my X from pre-order to delivery. Celebrate the Power Wall Solar Order's 2nd Birthday in a six months.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

As @cwied mentioned, it's definitely possible to keep things going once the power goes out. With the blizzard we had in the Denver area back on the 13th, our Powerwalls worked great for the first 24 hours or so but then we ran into a problem over the next 22 hours when the grid was still down. The inverters kept shutting off due to the frequency being sent by the Powerwalls. Definitely read up on this thread that was mentioned above: PowerWall Cold Start without Grid Power

They did come by after the storm to upgrade the firmware on my inverters and simulate an outage. Everything worked fine after that...but the Powerwalls were charged up during that simulated outage. I'm going to drain the Powerwalls down to 5% or so and simulate an outage and make sure the Powerwalls and inverters work together properly before the next storm.

BTW, we also tweeted Elon during the blizzard and they changed it so that Storm Watch will now activate during a blizzard warning. Had Storm Watch been activated before the blizzard this time, we would've been able to go at least another 48 hours off the grid. Hopefully they've added (or will add) winter storm warnings as well as heavy snow can take down power lines just as often as heavy wind.

Ironically, I just got this email from Tesla today. Looks like they are starting to market to those who have outages caused by snow:

 

[abasile]

One question I don't have a clear answer on is if installation would allow for my grid-tie PV to continue operating during a long term power outage as this would be a key thing for making a decision. Currently like all grid-tied PV systems it shuts off immediately during a power fluctuation or loss of power.

The Powerwall is supposed to be able to do this, and charging from solar during outages is a key selling point, but I have yet to observe this actually happening. Every time our power goes out, our solar production goes to zero and stays there. I just had a Tesla technician come to our home and he told me that there's an unresolved firmware issue. I expect that Tesla will eventually fix this. If you've been able to lock in a lower price than what Tesla is charging today, then it's likely still worth moving forward. However, the fact that Tesla still hasn't fixed this key firmware issue would give me pause about paying full price for a new Powerwall setup today; I'd be inclined to give them more time to work out the bugs before buying.

 

[voip-ninja]

The Powerwall is supposed to be able to do this, and charging from solar during outages is a key selling point, but I have yet to observe this actually happening. Every time our power goes out, our solar production goes to zero and stays there. I just had a Tesla technician come to our home and he told me that there's an unresolved firmware issue. I expect that Tesla will eventually fix this. If you've been able to lock in a lower price than what Tesla is charging today, then it's likely still worth moving forward. However, the fact that Tesla still hasn't fixed this key firmware issue would give me pause about paying full price for a new Powerwall setup today; I'd be inclined to give them more time to work out the bugs before buying.

What model inverter do you have?

I have a Fronius and that one is listed as compatible with the PowerWall controller.

 

[abasile]

What model inverter do you have?

I have a Fronius and that one is listed as compatible with the PowerWall controller.

I have SunPower 360W "AC" panels with SunPower-branded micro-inverters.

That being said, I'm pretty sure the inverter model is not the issue. During a simulated outage (flipped the main breaker) with a Tesla technician present, the Powerwalls were producing power with a frequency of 63 Hz. Had they lowered the frequency to 60 Hz, our micro-inverters would have turned back on. But the frequency stubbornly stayed at 63 Hz. Again, this is a known issue among Tesla Energy staff.

 

[bmah]

What model inverter do you have?

I have a Fronius and that one is listed as compatible with the PowerWall controller.

Like you, I have a Fronius inverter. I've done two tests of shutting off the grid connection (during the day). The inverter shut off, but within a few minutes it came back up, and after that I had solar powering the house and/or charging the battery with no grid connection. The Tesla Energy installer said that it sometimes takes up to five minutes for the inverter to turn back on. We didn't run in this mode for very long, but it was enough to give me that warm fuzzy feeling that things were working correctly. I didn't check the AC frequency during either test.

I'm not trying to discount the situation that @abasile described, just saying that it worked as expected for me under test conditions. Powerwall firmware was 1.33 during the first test, and 1.34.2 for the second test.

Bruce.

 

[abasile]

@bmah what was the ambient temperature during your outage simulation? There’s been discussion elsewhere that failure to charge from solar during outages may be a bug that is temperature related. It was about 40F during the test conducted at my house by the Tesla technician.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't think a five minute test is a true representation of how it would work in an extended outage. When I was having problems during an outage a couple weeks ago, my system would sometimes operate for up to half an hour before shutting off.

 

[mspohr]

I put a deposit 6 months ago. Have been ignored ever since. I've called a few times but only get vague answers about schedule. I don't think they have anybody to install in my area. I'm 50 miles from the Gigafactory but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

[nyprepper]

I just did a grid outage test. House is running off the Powerwalls now for the last hour but the inverter never came back on-line so no solar production. This is a HUGE issue that they need to address. Solar production to recharge batteries in extended outages was key to the value proposition for me in making this investment. Delta Solivia 7.6TL inverter. It is about 55 degrees Fahrenheit at the moment and I was getting about .5kw out of the PV when simulated the outage. Ugh.

 

[bmah]

@bmah what was the ambient temperature during your outage simulation? There’s been discussion elsewhere that failure to charge from solar during outages may be a bug that is temperature related. It was about 40F during the test conducted at my house by the Tesla technician.

Both the inverter and the Powerwalls are in my garage. I would speculate it was probably around 60F, probably not much less than that.

I don't think a five minute test is a true representation of how it would work in an extended outage. When I was having problems during an outage a couple weeks ago, my system would sometimes operate for up to half an hour before shutting off.

Fair point. This morning we have sunshine and an 81% charge on the batteries so I decided to flip the switch and try an outage test. Ambient temperature was 61F when I started. Obviously the inverter shut down when I turned off the grid. After five minutes it came back on-line. I'll let it run this way for awhile (which might be a few hours to the whole day, depending on how things go).

Oof. I also realize I am contributing towards drawing this thread off-topic.

/me <- bad moderator

Bruce.