What is/was insane vs ludicrous vs "performance" again?

[bcsteeve]

I'm looking at two non-CPO cars: a July 2015 "basic" P85D and a November 2014 P85D with Insane mode.

TBH, I never really cared about the performance side of this car, so I only followed along with the differences from year to year (month to month more like it) with cursory interest so my knowledge and recollection of how it was 2-3 years ago is suspect.

Now it is a question of pricing and negotiations, so I need to know the difference between these options, particularly what they would have cost new. Was "Insane mode" something that all P85D would have come with? Or is that the $10,000 "performance" upgrade listed in the options package for that era? (Or was "performance" an upgrade for lesser models that was included in the P price?). Was Insane later upgraded to Ludicrous, or that was something else entirely? All very confusing when coupled with no historical archive of the configurator.

I'd also like to know what the difference (if any) in 0-60 times is/was. Ultimately I don't care, but I'm trying to make a case that the 2014 is superior to the 2015 for negotiation reasons. I want the 2015... but he doesn't know that (shh don't tell)

 

[beegee]

Insane mode is standard on the P85D, with Ludicrous as an option.

 

[Eclectic]

I'm no expert on this, but I think that the terminology is that a standard motor in the Model S carried no prefix (e.g., an 85) while the Performance versions have more powerful motors and thus the P prefix (e.g., P85). The P85D was the first dual motor version of the Model S and it came standard with Insane mode. You then had the option, later on, of upgrading from Insane to Ludicrous on the P85D, for even more power. The P85 did low 4 second 0-60, the P85D Insane did around 3.3 0-60 and the P85D ludicrous did it in about 2.9 seconds, as I recall. I don't think that there was any change in the motor between Insane and Ludicrous for the P85D, just some firmware and maybe a few pieces of hardware.

 

[bcsteeve]

OK, thanks. When I go back in time (using the Internet Archive Wayback Machine) and look at the source code, I see a "performance" option listed for $10,000* or $11,000* (depending on month). Would that have been Ludicrous? Or was there a way to add Insane to a non P?

* These are Canadian dollars. I could look up what it was in USD if that helps.

 

[Eclectic]

OK, thanks. When I go back in time (using the Internet Archive Wayback Machine) and look at the source code, I see a "performance" option listed for $10,000* or $11,000* (depending on month). Would that have been Ludicrous? Or was there a way to add Insane to a non P?

* These are Canadian dollars. I could look up what it was in USD if that helps.

The $10k sounds a lot like the cost to upgrade from Insane to Ludicrous (I seem to remember that the price was $5k for a short time, but I think the standard price was $10k). The only way I know to go from non P to Insane on the same car is to hack it...

 

[bcsteeve]

OK, thanks a bunch guys!

 

[gordo]

Like beegee said, those cars have identical performance. They'll do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds (with 1-ft rollout). The P85D Ludicrous upgrade (no longer available) brought it down to 2.9 0-60.

 

[bcsteeve]

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[dennis]

IIRC, For 85D's in 2014/2015, the P version was a $10,000 upgrade, Adding insane mode was an additional $10,000 and dropped the 0-60 to 3.1. Subsequently, Ludicrous mode was introduced with hardware upgrades to the contactor and fuse on the traction battery. Owners of P85D's with Insane mode were offered a limited time option to upgrade to Ludicrous mode for $5K+labor. This was partly in response to the flap over horsepower claims Tesla made for the P85D with insane mode.

As an aside, when the P100D was introduced Ludicrous mode was bundled in (i.e. no way to get a P100D without Ludicrous). Except there was a short period of time in 4Q16 when Tesla was pushing deliveries that you could get $10K off an inventory P100D by having Ludicrous mode disabled.

 

[dennis]

Before pursuing purchase of any of these vehicles, I suggest requesting a screen shot of the Driving tab from the Settings Menu. Insane mode or Ludicrous mode should show up in the upper right corner depending on the option installed.

 

[Troy]

Hi, @bcsteeve. You might already know this, but in case you didn't know, be aware that the Model 3 will also have a performance version with ludicrous mode and it is expected to start production in mid-2018. The Model 3 performance version was confirmed by Elon here. Initially, Elon said production might start at the end of March 2018 here, but then more recently he said mid-2018 here. The Model 3 P80D is expected to have about the same range as the Model S P100D, same performance as the Model S P85D and I would expect the price to be around $74K USD. Of course, it will also have AP2.5 hardware compared to AP1.0 you are getting with the P85D. Used Model S priced might drop after Model 3 production picks up later this year.

 

[bcsteeve]

Hi Troy. Thanks. Being in Canada... shift all that back a year. I just don't want to wait. I want a safe car for my family before winter hits and I decided a long time ago my next car would be electric (or mostly electric). I recently took a very hard look at the Chevy Volt and it physically isn't a good fit, unfortunately. Its also made by GM, so there's that. The Bolt is just as unavailable as the 3, for all intents and purposes. So I started looking at the S again and these seem to be good value to me at this point.

I still have my reservation for the 3 in place (2, actually, but I don't know why). I'll make that call when it finally becomes available here.

Incidentally, I really don't care about the "P" side of things. If it does zero to sixty better than my current 18+ seconds... I'm good with that. Its just right now there isn't much near me in the non-P inventory and what there is doesn't have the other features I'm looking for.

As for AP... by most accounts, AP 1 is still superior. I realize that will change, but I think AP 1 is "good enough" for me for the time being, even if it doesn't improve going forward.

 

[whitex]

In April of 2015 when I was buying, P85D was +$24,600 over 85D. Insane was always standard on P85D. Ludicrous upgrade was not available until some time later, at which point it was $10,000 for new ordered cars but offered as a $5,000 retrofit to P85D owners who purchased before some cut-off date.

 

[sandpiper]

In April of 2015 when I was buying, P85D was +$24,600 over 85D. Insane was always standard on P85D. Ludicrous upgrade was not available until some time later, at which point it was $10,000 for new ordered cars but offered as a $5,000 retrofit to P85D owners who purchased before some cut-off date.

This is exactly correct.

Further, there was no way to turn an 85D into a P85D. The rear motors are different.