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What is your favorite Rinseless Wash?

What is your favorite rinseless wash?

  • Griot's Garage Rinseless Wash and Wax

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    41

joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
Just curious what everyone's favorite rinseless wash is for your Tesla? I am asking specifically about rinseless washes, not waterless washes.

In the past I have tried Mckees 37 N-914 as well as ONR and ONRWW. I like all 3. I typically use Mckees 37 N-914 to get the paint as clean as possible before applying a sealant as it leaves nothing behind. I like ONR if I plan to top with a spray wax. If I am in a rush and don't have time to apply a spray wax, I will use ONRWW. All 3 have a pleasant scent and are easy to use.

Today I tried Wolfgang Uber, having read many positive reviews about it. On the plus side, it was very slick, cleaned well, and left the paint glossy (it contains polymers and gloss enhancers). And the built-in measuring cup in the bottle was very helpful. However, I did not care for the scent (like a combination of bubble gum, cherry, and pepto bismol). And I did not think it was so superior to the others that it was worth the higher cost.

I'd love to hear others' opinions about your favorite rinseless washes.

Thank you,
joebruin77
 
Aug 7, 2020
635
1,337
USA
I’ve used ONR, ONRWW, Megs D114, Megs D115, Blackfire Rinseless, Poorboys Spray and Wipe, and now currently Uber Rinseless. I like Uber the best so far for a few reasons in no particular order:
-Super slick finish. Probably the slickest of all the ones I’ve tried.
-Wipes/flashes very easily. In fact I use it as a glass cleaner when not too dirty because it hardly streaks
-Versatile: Use as Rinseless, waterless, QD, Clay lube, interior screen and plastics, even effective on brake dust on wheels
-Economical: bought a gallon on sale a few years ago and still have a lot left. 1:384 oz Rinseless and 1:48 for waterless/QD
-Smell is ok but importantly not overpowering. Some of the other brands made me nauseous.
-Washes out of towels easily. ONR occasionally stained my towels and left a weird smell.

Curious to try Ultima's new Acrylic Waterless Wash as it seems to have no color dye or smell
 
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Gvardaman

Member
Oct 30, 2020
98
18
So. California
Meguiar’s or Mother’s are usually my “go to” brands for car care, I also have used and like Griot’s Garage, but couldn’t find it locally until recently, do haven’t used it in years.
 

KG M3

Member
Jul 24, 2018
166
257
Pasadena, CA
Just curious what everyone's favorite rinseless wash is for your Tesla? I am asking specifically about rinseless washes, not waterless washes.

Thank you,
joebruin77

Question: Do you find the ONR followed by poly seal to be sufficient to protect the paint from oxidation? I am all to used to polymer and carnuba waxes (with typically heavier coating) for long term protection.
 

joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
Question: Do you find the ONR followed by poly seal to be sufficient to protect the paint from oxidation? I am all to used to polymer and carnuba waxes (with typically heavier coating) for long term protection.

Hi, KG M3,
I do believe PolySeal offers a high level of protection, as long as it is applied correctly and reapplied when needed. It not only contains polymers and carnauba, it is also ceramic infused. The SiO2 offers a higher level of protection compared to traditional polymer sealants or carnauba waxes.

Here are some videos that evaluate its durability and protection:



I would use Mckees 37 N-914 to clean the car prior to applying PolySeal as it cleans really well without leaving any gloss enhancers, polymers, or waxes behind. This enables the PolySeal to form the strongest bond to the paint.
 
Last edited:

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
46
53
Waterloo, ON
Question: Do you find the ONR followed by poly seal to be sufficient to protect the paint from oxidation? I am all to used to polymer and carnuba waxes (with typically heavier coating) for long term protection.

Your paint is protected from oxidation by the UV stabilizers in the clear coat over the colour coat. So your focus should be on protecting the clear coat layer when performing paint maintenance. Washing your car frequently especially addressing contaminants (bird poop, bug guts, etc.) that can eat away at the clear coat can be more effective than choosing a sealant which rarely provides protection from these acidic elements. If you need true chemical resistance, consider getting a ceramic coating which is one of the main reasons for getting a ceramic coating other than self cleaning properties in rain.

Over an extended period of time even with proper maintenance, the UV stabilizers in the clear coat will start to breakdown which is your main protection from oxidation of the colour coat. Only Optimum Car Wax has lab tests to prove the ability to restore UV stabilizers in the clear coat (probably because Optimum owner and chemist, Dr. G was heavily involved in the development of modern clear coat paint). So consider using ONRWW which already contains Optimum Car Wax or consider periodically applying Optimum Car Wax after ONR.
 
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joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
Your paint is protected from oxidation by the UV stabilizers in the clear coat over the colour coat. So your focus should be on protecting the clear coat layer when performing paint maintenance. Washing your car frequently especially addressing contaminants (bird poop, bug guts, etc.) that can eat away at the clear coat can be more effective than choosing a sealant which rarely provides protection from these acidic elements. If you need true chemical resistance, consider getting a ceramic coating which is one of the main reasons for getting a ceramic coating other than self cleaning properties in rain.

Over an extended period of time even with proper maintenance, the UV stabilizers in the clear coat will start to breakdown which is your main protection from oxidation of the colour coat. Only Optimum Car Wax has lab tests to prove the ability to restore UV stabilizers in the clear coat (probably because Optimum owner and chemist, Dr. G was heavily involved in the development of modern clear coat paint). So consider using ONRWW which already contains Optimum Car Wax or consider periodically applying Optimum Car Wax after ONR.


You bring up an interesting point. I agree with some of the info in your post, but not all. A car paint's clear coat already contains all the protection your car needs from UV rays. The reason a car's paint suffers UV damage is due to the clear coat being damaged and/or dirty. So the key to preventing oxidation and other damage from UV rays is to keep the clear coat clean and protected.

1) It is true that Optimum was the first company to patent a car wax's UV protection capabilities and that they submitted lab results to back up their claims. However, this does not mean that Optimum's wax is the only wax on the market that protects car paint from UV rays. IMO many sealants and waxes provide some UV protection. I think Optimum's patent for UV protection is great for marketing and selling wax, but to say that you need to use Optimum wax or else any other wax will not protect your paint from UV rays is not true.

Mike Phillips, who is a well respected car detailing expert on Autogeek online once said this:

"Some waxes do contain UV-protection agents, but the amount of protection that a microscopically thin layer of wax can provide is limited.
The primary goal of a wax is to protect the top layers of paint that contain UV-protection agents from the paint manufacture. If you wash and wax your car regularly, your paint will be protected and you should suffer no major UV damage over the normal course of the life of the car.
Don't be fooled by some companies that lead you to believe that it is the UV protection in a wax that protects your car's finish from fading and failure, this is dishonest and simply not true. Taking care of the paint you presently have will go further to protect your finish than relying on protection supplied by a liquid you pour out of a bottle, or a wax you scoop out of a can. UV protection in a car wax formula is only an extra-dose of preventative maintenance, not the end-all, cure-all that some companies would lead you to believe."

2) Many paint sealants on the market today do indeed provide a very high level of protection against chemicals and contaminants. Yes, there are some sealants that provide very poor protection (for example Beadmaker, F11, Shine Armor) but many others provide very high levels of protection (for example The Last Coat 2.0, PolySeal, and even Turtle Wax Seal and Shine). Ceramic coatings are awesome, but they are not the only way to provide protection to your paint. The main advantage of ceramic coatings is that, although they do require some maintenance, they can last many years. Sealants, on the other hand, need to be reapplied every few months. But as long as you are consistent and diligent in reapplying the sealant, it will indeed protect your car.

3) It's interesting to take a closer look at Optimum's lab data submitted with their patent for the UV protection. Here is a quote from Dr G, the founder of Opitmum:

Dr. G stated: "The UV absorbers we use in the Optimum Car Wax are the same as those in the clearcoat paint. The testing we did is an ASTM standard test for automotive paint. A series of panels were painted with automotive base coat/clear coat at the Bayer polymer division (they supply isocyanates to the major OEM paint suppliers and some car manufacturers). The panels were placed in a QUV chamber for roughly 1,500 hours which is equivalent to 5-7 years of external UV exposure. As the test progressed, it was evident that the panels that had Optimum Car Wax with UV protection did not show any fading for the duration of the test while the panels without UV lost gloss and reflectivity (Definition of Image)."

I am not disputing the results. But the lab work is not without its possible flaws. Does the experiment really replicate real world conditions? What about road grime, contaminants, etc that are not introduced in a lab setting but would be in day to day use? And what about repeating the experiment but this time with other waxes and sealants?

Most ceramic coatings claim that they protect against UV damange. I don't know if it is the SiO2 that protects against UV or if there are additional UV blockers. But I would wonder if a ceramic-infused spray sealant would provide better UV protection than a sealant or wax without ceramic in it.
 

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
46
53
Waterloo, ON
The reason a car's paint suffers UV damage is due to the clear coat being damaged and/or dirty. So the key to preventing oxidation and other damage from UV rays is to keep the clear coat clean and protected.

I agree and I believe that's what I stated in my original post when referring to frequent washing. You want to preserve the original clear coat as much as possible to prevent oxidation. The prompt removal of harmful contaminants on the clear coat is more important that the selection of wax/sealant in achieving this aim.

I think Optimum's patent for UV protection is great for marketing and selling wax, but to say that you need to use Optimum wax or else any other wax will not protect your paint from UV rays is not true.

I am confused by this statement especially when you quote Mike Phillips stating that any microscopically thin layer cannot provide any significant UV protection yet you want to state other waxes can protect your paint from UV rays? You seem to be contradicting yourself in the same post. The difference with Optimum Car Wax is the UV inhibitors don't just stay in the wax, they are capable of restoring the UV inhibitors within the clear coat hence why the observed test results. Also quoted from Mike Phillips on his review of Optimum Car Wax:

Plus, while I know most people think a spray on wax is a glorified spray detailer, this particular wax really does leave the UV protection ingredients on the surface and if I remember correctly with repeated use the key ingredients migrate into the paint resin to some level.

But going back to my original statement I stated "consider" using Optimum Car Wax to protect the paint from oxidation. I no way did I say use this product or else because if the original clear coat is maintained to a high level there should be no issue for an extended period (depending on quality of paint).

Many paint sealants on the market today do indeed provide a very high level of protection against chemicals and contaminants.

What I was trying to convey was protection from environmental contaminants when left on the paint for extended period that causes etching of clear coat. This generally requires polishing/compounding to resolve which makes that valuable clear coat thinner and thus less capable of protecting UV rays. There are many sealants that provide decent resistance from alkaline cleaners but most provide only limited protection of acidic based especially real world conditions where the acidic bird dropping is left on the paint for a week and allowed to bake in and start eating through the sealant and clear coat. Generally only ceramic coatings (and typically professionally applied) are capable of protecting the clear clear coat from the resultant etching. If a car owner figures they are unable/unwilling to address such issues promptly then they should consider going with a ceramic coating to protect the paint.
 

joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
I agree and I believe that's what I stated in my original post when referring to frequent washing. You want to preserve the original clear coat as much as possible to prevent oxidation. The prompt removal of harmful contaminants on the clear coat is more important that the selection of wax/sealant in achieving this aim.

Yes, we definitely agree on this.

I am confused by this statement especially when you quote Mike Phillips stating that any microscopically thin layer cannot provide any significant UV protection yet you want to state other waxes can protect your paint from UV rays? You seem to be contradicting yourself in the same post. The difference with Optimum Car Wax is the UV inhibitors don't just stay in the wax, they are capable of restoring the UV inhibitors within the clear coat hence why the observed test results. Also quoted from Mike Phillips on his review of Optimum Car Wax:

Plus, while I know most people think a spray on wax is a glorified spray detailer, this particular wax really does leave the UV protection ingredients on the surface and if I remember correctly with repeated use the key ingredients migrate into the paint resin to some level.

I can see why that might at first glance seem contradictory, so let me try to clarify. What I was suggesting (and what I think is consistent with the Mike Philips quotes) is that many paint sealants and waxes offer UV protection, but that any additional protection offered by any wax is miniscule compared to the UV protection built into the clearcoat itself. Optimum wax claims to migrate UV protection into the resin of the clearcoat, and the idea is a very cool idea. The lab results from Optimum's patent did show that the panels treated with Optimum wax were more resistant to UV damage. But the lab results did not prove that actual migration of UV absorbers, nor did the lab results compare the level of UV protection with other waxes and sealants. I would have been more convinced if they had taken previously UV damaged panels, applied the Optimum wax, and the UV protection came back as a result. Also, the methodoloy, IMO, did not recreate real world conditions. The panels may have been exposed to the equivalent of 5-7 years worth of UV rays, but they were not subjected to 5-7 years worth of road grime, contaminants, washing, reapplication, etc.

But going back to my original statement I stated "consider" using Optimum Car Wax to protect the paint from oxidation. I no way did I say use this product or else because if the original clear coat is maintained to a high level there should be no issue for an extended period (depending on quality of paint).

I stand corrected. I was trying to make a point and in the process I misrepresented what you said. My apologies for that.

In the end, I think you and I actually agree on quite a bit. Thank you for sharing your original quote. I learned quite a bit about UV protection and car paint as a result.
 

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
46
53
Waterloo, ON
Optimum wax claims to migrate UV protection into the resin of the clearcoat, and the idea is a very cool idea. The lab results from Optimum's patent did show that the panels treated with Optimum wax were more resistant to UV damage. But the lab results did not prove that actual migration of UV absorbers, nor did the lab results compare the level of UV protection with other waxes and sealants. I would have been more convinced if they had taken previously UV damaged panels, applied the Optimum wax, and the UV protection came back as a result. Also, the methodoloy, IMO, did not recreate real world conditions. The panels may have been exposed to the equivalent of 5-7 years worth of UV rays, but they were not subjected to 5-7 years worth of road grime, contaminants, washing, reapplication, etc.

Remember that the test was an accelerated test over 1500 hrs (roughly 60 days) with I believe a single application of wax for the test. I agree that real world conditions or road grime and washing may impact the ability of the UV inhibitors to fully transfer to the clear coat. But if after each wash (nominal 2-4 week period) you reapply the wax (or use ONRWW), one would reasonably expect that some of the UV inhibitors to transfer to the clear coat.

In the case of clear coat failure, you would use Optimum Clear Coat Restorer to add an effective new layer of clear coat. Product was released in the last two years and is somewhat expensive but substantially cheaper that having the vehicle re-sprayed.
 

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
46
53
Waterloo, ON
ONR for life!
I agree ONR is one the most versatile products for cleaning. I use it for cleaning the exterior, interior (hard surfaces/leather seats) and streak free window cleaner. I even use it in my steamer as it acts as a descaler to maintain the heating elements.

I once used Ultima Waterless Wash for a road trip as it is designed to be used waterless but had strange result on my windshield. It caused massive chatter for the wiper blades. Later learned through a Rag company podcast that Ultima contains silicone. Reserved the remaining product for spot touch ups on the paint only.
 
Aug 7, 2020
635
1,337
USA
PBMG just released a SiO2 infused Wolfgang Uber Rinseless wash. I've fallen a bit behind on the latest detailing fads. Ceramic, SiO2, graphene, etc too much crap to choose from now.
 

joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
PBMG just released a SiO2 infused Wolfgang Uber Rinseless wash. I've fallen a bit behind on the latest detailing fads. Ceramic, SiO2, graphene, etc too much crap to choose from now.

The SiO2 infused version of Wolfgang Uber RW is normally $84.99 a gallon and today it was listed on sale on the Autogeek website for 10% off.
 

mikeymike88

Member
Nov 12, 2019
52
35
Fresno, CA
The SiO2 infused version of Wolfgang Uber RW is normally $84.99 a gallon and today it was listed on sale on the Autogeek website for 10% off.
Awesome! Might pick some up! I wonder if it's overkill to use Poly Seal as a drying aid on top of this? Currently use ONR then Poly Seal and am considering switching to Uber SiO2 rinseless with Poly Seal...
 

joebruin77

Active Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,099
956
Encino, CA
Awesome! Might pick some up! I wonder if it's overkill to use Poly Seal as a drying aid on top of this? Currently use ONR then Poly Seal and am considering switching to Uber SiO2 rinseless with Poly Seal...

Before buying a gallon of it, I would suggest buying a smaller bottle and try it out. The thing I like about using ONR (the original version without wax) or Mckees 37 N-914 is that they leave nothing behind on the paint, so sealants like PolySeal can form a strong bond. I do not know if the Wolfgang Rinseless would interfere with the bonding process since it does have more Polymers and possibly gloss enhancers. Then again, since PolySeal has SiO2, perhaps using a rinseless wash that contains SiO2 might be beneficial.

I think the best thing to do is to try it out and compare it to your experience with ONR.
 
Aug 7, 2020
635
1,337
USA
Awesome! Might pick some up! I wonder if it's overkill to use Poly Seal as a drying aid on top of this? Currently use ONR then Poly Seal and am considering switching to Uber SiO2 rinseless with Poly Seal...
Surely there must be some point of diminishing returns when you use so many products with protection. Wash and wax, then a spray wax while wet as a drying aid, then dedicated spray wax, then a topper? Just seems too complicated. I like the spray and rinse sealants because I’m lazy.
 

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