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What makes Model S a luxury car?

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So what defines luxury?
The Nissan Leaf has the same excellent qualities as an EV for silent and comfortable drivetrain, though not the perfomance of the Model S. The Ford Focus has many of the advanced safety features that f.inst. MB has used to define their high-end models.

Good question. I'll give a different take on it. Most people talking "luxury" are thinking "appearance", and I really don't care about appearance. But luxury cann mean something else: luxury means everything works "just right" out of the box, rather than "a little off" or "needs tinkering". Ordinary means you settle for second-best or have to tweak things. Luxury means "no worries". This is a different definition.

This is why a luxury car needs to have a seat which can be adjusted *just* right, a steering wheel column which can be adjusted to fit you, etc. It has to work "just right" for you.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the heating goes on instantly when you get into the Model S is a luxury feature (and one of massive value) -- but hey, the Leaf presumably has that too, since that's just an electric car thing. A decent electric car inherently has a *lot* of luxury features, including very quiet running and no gearshifting and low maintenance.

If 100 miles range were enough for me I'd be getting a Leaf, frankly. But I can't even get to a doctor's appointment and back with that range.

The range of the model S is a feature. In a sense, the "no worries" sense I'm using, it's a luxury feature. Most people are getting more range than they strictly need, including me, and that extra range is a "no worries" luxury feature.

Not having to go to a gas station -- a luxury feature. Chargers which enable access to pretty much any sort of electric outlet anywhere -- a luxury feature.

A jack and spare tire -- a luxury feature, and one which is missing from Model S :p Run-flats are also a luxury feature, of course.
 
For some "value" comparisons, here's a great resource:
Teslanomics-Menu

It's actually not that great a resource because it doesn't have a place to plug in the number of miles you drive per year, instead assuming that you are the FHWA average driver, 15000 miles per year. This is unfortunate because they've really done a lot of good work in their computations apart from that...

Miles driven per year is the dominating factor for personal TCO on electric vs. gas. Your numbers will vary wildly if you drive 5000 miles per year or 30000 miles per year. The more you drive the better the electric is.
 
On that same page, there's a link to the DoE's calculator, which has all of that optionality, neroden.

Awesome, thanks! Miles driven per year is the *core* number for comparing electric to gas -- basically because electricity is cheaper than gas, but batteries are more expensive than an ICE, so the more you use it, the more the fuel savings cancel out the upfront cost.

I don't drive enough (5000 miles per year?) to make back the premium in 10 years, even if gas prices go up quite a bit. Maybe in 20. :) But I'm getting the car for psychological and environmental reasons -- I want *off of gasoline*. Most people do drive more than that.
 
Was a Model S shown in Detriot?

Hello - I'm new to the forum! Nice to meet youall.

I currently drive a 2011 Infiniti M56, and that prejudices me towards several features that I consider essential for a luxury car. Before buying the M56, I test drove a Lexus LS460, BMW 550i, and Mercedes-Benz E550 & CLS550. Since my previous car was a 2000 Oldsmobile Alero, all the extra features and comfort of those cars impressed me quite a bit.

I originally felt that a luxury car should have a powerful engine and provide advanced features that less-expensive cars don't have. That's why I wound up with the Infiniti, because it had a 420HP V8, adaptive cruise control, cooled front seats, blind spot warning/intervention, iPod integration, distance control assist, a voice-activated nav, XM NavTraffic, and a backup camera. (My wife's FX50 has an Around-View Monitor for parking that is just amazing, and my friend's Hyundai Equus has corner cameras on the front bumpers to help when pulling forward out of a driveway onto a street with poor visibility due to walls, trees, or parked cars.)

That all having been said, after driving my M56 for almost two years, I now feel that a luxury car should have two main features: a silent cabin and luxurious, comfortable seats. Those are the two things I miss in my car that I remember so vividly from my Lexus LS460 test drive. The Lexus 19-speaker Martin Levinson sound system is just aural icing on the cake! (I wonder if Tesla's Dolby 12-speaker ProLogic 7.1 system even comes close?)

When I called Tesla recently to inquire about a $5,000 reservation for the Performance 85kWh (w/$5,000 "additional standard equipment," $750 "metallic blue paint," $3,750 "tech package," $950 "sound studio package," $1,500 "twin chargers," and $1,200 "high-power wall connector"), I asked about the cabin noise since Elon Musk had made some comments in an online video about a very low drag coefficient and well-insulated quiet cabin. The representative to whom I spoke stated that the cabin was quieter than even a Lexus LS460 - one of the quietest cars I've ever driven. If that's the case, and the seats are comfortable, this may be an easy decision.

However, the Model S as currently shown on the website makes no mention of cooled seats (essential for California!), adaptive cruise control, blind spot warning, around-view monitor, valet mode (like the Roadster has), head's-up display (like BMW has), lane departure warning (like Mercedes-Benz has), or night vision (again, like Mercedes). I would expect a cutting-edge $93,050 car (before the $7,500 tax credit but also before 8.75% sales tax) to have features that are already starting to be considered standard on competing luxury cars.

The benefit of the Tesla is saving $50-80 per week on gas, which is about $4,000 per year, and that's quite luxurious IMHO! But is that worth the $30,000 premium over the 2013 Infiniti M56 or $15,000 premium over the 2013 Lexus LS that I'd also be considering at the time? Guess we'll have to see just how much that road noise bugs me for the next year or so!

Was the Model S shown in Detroit? I'm a bit behind the news this week. I'm curious if any of the features that were missing previously that I mentioned in my previous post may have been added (cooled front seats, adaptive cruise control, etc.)
 
Hello - I'm new to the forum! Nice to meet youall.
Welcome!
When I called Tesla recently to inquire about a $5,000 reservation for the Performance 85kWh (w/$5,000 "additional standard equipment," $750 "metallic blue paint," $3,750 "tech package," $950 "sound studio package," $1,500 "twin chargers," and $1,200 "high-power wall connector"), I asked about the cabin noise since Elon Musk had made some comments in an online video about a very low drag coefficient and well-insulated quiet cabin. The representative to whom I spoke stated that the cabin was quieter than even a Lexus LS460 - one of the quietest cars I've ever driven. If that's the case, and the seats are comfortable, this may be an easy decision.

However, the Model S as currently shown on the website makes no mention of cooled seats (essential for California!), adaptive cruise control, blind spot warning, around-view monitor, valet mode (like the Roadster has), head's-up display (like BMW has), lane departure warning (like Mercedes-Benz has), or night vision (again, like Mercedes). I would expect a cutting-edge $93,050 car (before the $7,500 tax credit but also before 8.75% sales tax) to have features that are already starting to be considered standard on competing luxury cars.

The benefit of the Tesla is saving $50-80 per week on gas, which is about $4,000 per year, and that's quite luxurious IMHO! But is that worth the $30,000 premium over the 2013 Infiniti M56 or $15,000 premium over the 2013 Lexus LS that I'd also be considering at the time? Guess we'll have to see just how much that road noise bugs me for the next year or so!
There certainly are some tradeoffs with the Model S; it does not dominate the Lexus LS in every dimension.

Downside:
  • The Model S does not have ventilated seats; it does, however, allow you to cool down the cabin before you enter, so the need may not be as great.
  • Tesla hasn't released a full list of standard gear, but there has been no mention to date of adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, blind spot warning, parking distance control, or HUD. There is rampant speculation on the boards that these will be available in subsequent model years, probably borrowing heavily from Mercedes or other established suppliers.
  • Tesla does not have the same coast-to-coast network of dealers and qualified repair technicians and, as a start-up, there is always some risk that the company might not be around in the future to provide these services.
Upside:
  • With no engine noise, industry-beating drag (and, hence, reduced wind noise), and quality engineering, the Model S is reported to have an almost eerily quite interior by those at Fremont for the October 1-2 event. You'll really be able to hear your sound system!
  • No gas means not only saving cash, but also saving time -- low quality time, too, as gas stations are only just above public restrooms on my "favorite places to be" list.
  • Amazing driving characteristics. With a flat torque curve and low center of gravity, the Model S will give you a vastly more exciting drive than the Lexus or Infiniti.
BTW, we know that the interior is evolving, so no one outside of Tesla knows what the seating will be like yet. You may want to hang back just a bit; I expect that the Model S will evolve (positively) to include some of the extra luxury perks that you value. Personally, I put very little value on the extra gadgets that show up on luxury cars, so I'm ready to buy now.
 
Some of the beta images indicated the presence of a blind spot monitoring system on the driver's mirror...we've got to wait for the list of standard feature (coming probably within a month) to know which luxury features are standard.

I would be shocked if blind spot monitoring was a standard feature. I really hope your right but find it hard to believe.
 
Was the Model S shown in Detroit?

Yes it was, this is the Shasta White Beta used at the October event. I believe it is VIN #14. (Eat your heart out Teg!:wink:)
IMG_4820.jpg
 
Quality reference?

[moderator note: merged from another thread - b.]

Hi

I was wondering do you have a quality reference (car) for the Model S?
Do you or what cars do look at to get the touch&feel of quality for the Model S?
(not talking maintenance, just the exterior, interior, materials, haptics, processing quality)
e.g. Audi A7, BMW, Jaguar XF...?

The Beta couldn't do that.

What do you expect from a 80'000$-car?

Or if you already have experience in a real production Model S...Feedback requested :smile:
 
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We discussed this in the premium vs. luxury car thread: What makes Model S a luxury car?
Tesla is positioning Model S against BMW5 and Mercedes E class. They say that interior materials, fit & finish will be on par with these. They call it the "premium" segment. The luxury segment would be BMW 7 or Mercedes S where yet another level is reached.
It is misleading to compare Model S in your final configuration with a similar priced ICE. You get a $50k (=very basic) interior. The extra cash goes into the drive train. Oh, well, except leather seats :wink:
 
Thanks Volker

If the Model S can hold the Level of a BMW5...then I'll be a very happy man.
Before seeing the Model S...once the first Series produced cars reach europe...I'll go check out the BMW first (just to touch, sit and look)

can't hardly wait.