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What percentage of Model 3s are "lemons"

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Welp, I took delivery of a SR+ on 9/19. Only had one issue - the B pillar on the drivers side had the incorrect retaining clips installed, so it had a tendency to pop off/come loose. I had service come out and replace the retaining clips, and they did so at no charge since it was covered by the cars warranty.

Otherwise, my car has been issue-free. No scratches, reasonable panel gaps, no missing screws, no missing paint, etc.

My wife and I have put about 1,000 miles on it so far and we've had zero issues.
 
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Yeah, it's just rude. Maybe a cultural difference, I don't know.

What I posted is evidence. Look up the definition in any dictionary you care to read.

I didn't make a web poll.

I also have degrees ;)

Ugh, I'm outta here. Rude ass.

People are not disputing your poll, by itself. They are saying its not valid because it has "selection bias". One has to work very hard with any sort of information gathering to avoid selection bias.

An example of "selection bias" would be asking a question like "Do you believe that full battery electric vehicles, or internal combustion vehicles represent the future of ground motorized transportation?".... in a Tesla forum. Then, you could take these survey results and state "My survey proves that people think battery cars are the fuuuturrreeeee....!!!!"

Your survey would say that, but there would be no proof that the sample of people you surveyed was meaningful in providing real results across a wide swath of people.

Similarly, asking people on a forum to report whether they had problems with a car or not automatically introduces selection bias, because many people head online to look for solutions to a problem, and find a forum and start posting in it. Your data source is skewed, so your poll is skewed. This is what they are trying to explain to you.

The poll also doesnt have much to do with the actual thread title, since "panel gaps" does not = Lemon car. A "lemon" is a specific definition actually when the manufacturer buys the car back. ALL manufacturers work very hard to avoid "lemons" even on cars that should be treated as such. I know for a fact that, sometimes, BMW will offer to buy a car back that SHOULD be marked as a "lemon" (branded title) but because they did so willingly without being compelled to do so, the car isnt a "lemon" even though almost everyone would call it such.

In any case, the above is why people are saying "your poll isnt valid". Its pretty easy to make statistic polls prove whatever you want, by the selection of who you poll, and takes real work (or a large data set) to try to minimize selection bias.

EDIT: I also remember the OP in this thread "shopping" previously. Many of the same questions were asked. OP, even if you had this information now, how would that possibly impact a car decision that, by your own admittance is "2 years from now"? Tesla could be the best manufacturer on the planet, or a year into bankruptcy, or anywhere in between.
 
I don't believe this is really something that you need to be concerned with for a Tesla Model 3.

The Model 3 is a pretty simple car all around, and I highly doubt there are that many lemons. No where close to the Model X which is a lot more complicated. It's also not a very new so it's not going to have the initial issues.

Sure it does happen, but its likely rare.

The number one hesitation I'd have in buying a Tesla is customer service.

Is there a way to message them on the website? I didn't see it.

What are the chat hours on the website to get a question/concern answered? Last I checked it was only from 8AM PST to 3PM PST M-F. That's not a very large window.

Is there anyway to email them? From a link on the website?

You basically have to call them, but can you call the local service center directly and easily? Is that number given out?

If you have a significant problem who do you contact at Tesla? Last I checked you had to play the Elon twitter lottery if you had a significant problem.
 
Interesting Stats:
car-manufacturer-with-most-lemons.jpeg


List of Automakers with Highest Lemon's Law Complaints!

As a former BMW M3 owner, who grew up in a MB household, I find it amusing because after about 3-4 yrs, those cars spend plenty of time and money in the shop.

That being said, our Model 3 after 10k miles required an RDU replacement (under full warranty). Not sure if it was because of how aggressively I was driving. Still love the car though.
 
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As a former BMW M3 owner, who grew up in a MB household, I find it amusing because after about 3-4 yrs, those cars spend plenty of time and money in the shop.

That being said, our Model 3 after 10k miles required an RDU replacement (under full warranty). Not sure if it was because of how aggressively I was driving. Still love the car though.
I sometimes wonder if the vast differences in opinion on Tesla reliability is because half the owners are coming from Toyota Priuses and half the owners are coming from German cars.
I personally know three people who have their BMWs lemoned (the infamous N54 high pressure fuel pump) so I'm not so sure about that chart!
Getting your BMW lemoned is actually pretty great because the fuel pump fails early and then they can't fix it for a few years but you get it refunded at the value when you first had the problem.
 
I sometimes wonder if the vast differences in opinion on Tesla reliability is because half the owners are coming from Toyota Priuses and half the owners are coming from German cars.
I personally know three people who have their BMWs lemoned (the infamous N54 high pressure fuel pump) so I'm not so sure about that chart!
Getting your BMW lemoned is actually pretty great because the fuel pump fails early and then they can't fix it for a few years but you get it refunded at the value when you first had the problem.

BMW tries like heck to avoid "lemon". They buy many cars back that are not actually "lemoned" because they dont want the car to have the branded title. I cant speak about any other manufacturer on there but BMW I have plenty of history with. I had a new X5 bought back by BMW because of electrical gremlins they couldnt fix a couple months after we took possession. I never had to engage a lawyer or, said another way, They bought it back, but it was never reported as a "lemon".
 
I sometimes wonder if the vast differences in opinion on Tesla reliability is because half the owners are coming from Toyota Priuses and half the owners are coming from German cars.
I personally know three people who have their BMWs lemoned (the infamous N54 high pressure fuel pump) so I'm not so sure about that chart!
Getting your BMW lemoned is actually pretty great because the fuel pump fails early and then they can't fix it for a few years but you get it refunded at the value when you first had the problem.

LOL. Funny you mention it. My “other” car...happens to be Toyota Camry Hybrid. That car is currently dead out front (70k miles), with flat spots on the tires, because we neglected it and the Tesla is so much better to drive. You reminded me I need to call AAA to jump start it or put a new battery in. (Go figure...my NON-Tesla has a dead battery!)
 
BMW tries like heck to avoid "lemon". They buy many cars back that are not actually "lemoned" because they dont want the car to have the branded title. I cant speak about any other manufacturer on there but BMW I have plenty of history with. I had a new X5 bought back by BMW because of electrical gremlins they couldnt fix a couple months after we took possession. I never had to engage a lawyer or, said another way, They bought it back, but it was never reported as a "lemon".
Ah. That probably explains it. I bet they were all buybacks after threatening to lemon.
 
This is a patently absurd claim. A forum survey of this type is subject to absurd levels of selection bias. This data is essentially meaningless.

I would guess the only "real" information would be the JD Powers survey on initial quality. Although even that wasn't a full survey since Tesla didn't allow them to survey customers in 15 states.

2020 Initial Quality Study (IQS)
 
Ah, Good point.

For reference, my SR+ M3 is replacing a 2001 Toyota Camry with 150k miles on it (this car is going to go to my 17 year old cousin as her first car). My other car is a 2015 NIssan Versa with a 5-speed manual @ 102k miles (we're still keeping this one as a secondary car).

So my opinion of the M3 is probably significantly higher than former BMW/Mercedes drivers.

My wife and I buy cars based on resilience and maintenance/upkeep, not luxury. To that end, we think the M3 was a solid choice.
 
I sometimes wonder if the vast differences in opinion on Tesla reliability is because half the owners are coming from Toyota Priuses and half the owners are coming from German cars.
I personally know three people who have their BMWs lemoned (the infamous N54 high pressure fuel pump) so I'm not so sure about that chart!
Getting your BMW lemoned is actually pretty great because the fuel pump fails early and then they can't fix it for a few years but you get it refunded at the value when you first had the problem.


Ah, Good point.

For reference, my SR+ M3 is replacing a 2001 Toyota Camry with 150k miles on it (this car is going to go to my 17 year old cousin as her first car). My other car is a 2015 NIssan Versa with a 5-speed manual @ 102k miles (we're still keeping this one as a secondary car).

So my opinion of the M3 is probably significantly higher than former BMW/Mercedes drivers.

My wife and I buy cars based on resilience and maintenance/upkeep, not luxury. To that end, we think the M3 was a solid choice.

(Sorry for the double post, I meant to quote the above user)
 
So my opinion of the M3 is probably significantly higher than former BMW/Mercedes drivers.
I think I was actually making the opposite point. Unless your Toyota was unreliable? BMWs and Mercedes have horrendous reliability and repair costs out of warranty and I expect Tesla to be better. I do not expect Toyota reliability.
The other side of the coin is that you see a lot people coming from cheaper cars amazed by interior comfort and quietness, handling, and performance while people coming from the German brands are less impressed.
 
Basically, what I'm proposing is that you flip the problem around. You are asking for your chances of being unhappy with a bad Tesla, which nobody here can answer. So instead, ask yourself what are your chances of being happy with a Tesla. I think the customer satisfaction numbers should give a closer answer to that question than the one you were asking.

This is an excellent response. Thank you.
 
I had a Mercedes C63 a few years ago, I was the second owner and I had it for about 2.5 years, it spent a good 5-6 weeks in the shop during my ownership for different warranty work.

One time the body control module died out in palm desert, ended up having to drive it home 110 miles To LA with no AC, no lights, no radio, and the cooling fans going full bore the whole way.

all brands have these issues, doesn’t matter how much the car cost. If you want maximum reliability your best bet is to buy a Toyota or a Honda I guess.
 
The #1 thing is to absolutely, under no circumstances, accept delivery of a vehicle that requires service after delivery. And if it requires service during the 7 day return period, return it.
If you do those two things you've got a good chance. Part of the perception of there being a lot of lemons is that Tesla never fixes vehicles before delivery (unlike traditional dealerships), they just keep trying to deliver the car until someone accepts it.
It's a great car if you get a good one!

This is good advise! My SR+ lumbar support control died on day 5 of the test drive, I loved the car so much I kept it and scheduled for service. Fast forward several weeks and my computer died, black screen and the A/C was running full blast! Tesla SC told me there were 100 cars in front of me for service and I wouldn't see my car for 2 weeks! Worst part, the car would not shut down and it ran the battery into the ground. They claimed they disabled it, but when the app finally reconnected it showed they were supercharging it at 11%. My battery would previously give me 241 on a full charge, now lucky to get 229. When I picked up the car I got 10 miles from the SC and the computer said there was a problem and power was limited, so I had to turn around and leave it for another two days! I live 90 miles from the SC. They did give me a neutered 2017 model X to drive for the entire ordeal; the staff was super friendly and helpful.

So YES, by all means, if its got problems on the test drive...return it!!!
 
It’s unlikely you’ll get concrete statistics but I’d guess it’s a small percentage. It’s rare for people to praise a good build quality online but it’s absolutely common for people to post about a negative experience. My Dec 18 build is near flawless, no panel gaps or anything. My advice would be if the car is not absolutely near perfect at delivery, reject it. Don’t consider any promises made by the delivery team about fixing the issues later.
 
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I would really like to get a Model 3 for my next car.

Reading these forums, I read some horror stories about problems --- small and large -- with build quality and service.

However, all these anecdotes can certainly be misleading because no one ever starts a thread: "Just checking in. No problems with my Model 3!"

So can any one post any information from any reputable source that shows how many Model 3s are lemons, and/or how many have no problems?

Thanks!