What portion of your M3 will you clear-bra or wrap for paint protection?

[israndy]

With all this talk of people trying to keep their M3 perfect I am starting to gravitate toward putting a vinyl wrap on with the image of body damage and clear coat flaking. That would make my M3 stand out for a few years and then when I peal it off I would still have perfect paint underneath. By then a lot less perfect 2018 M3s would exist. Wonder who could create stuff like that...

-Randy

 

[TaoJones]

Front end, doors. Maybe rocker panels.

For a car in this price range, I’m not going to care as much and therefore might park between 2 cars. Something that has not, does not, and will not happen with either S.

So that’s why the doors will get done.

I expect the Donald Duck front end to attract at least as many rock chips, hence the wrap there.

Further, I will C-Bond the windshield to lessen the impact of rock chips *and* will use the other C-Bond product to make the window tint more impervious to break ins.

In SoCal, see Extreme Autowerks for the XPel, Photosync tint, and the C-Bond options.

 

[daniel]

... *and* will use the other C-Bond product to make the window tint more impervious to break ins...

Sorry. What does window tint have to do with break-ins? Just that if people can't see inside, they're less likely to bother breaking in? But that wouldn't make anything impervious. It just might discourage thieves. ??? Unless the thieves decide that the windows are tinted to hide the car's valuable contents.

I can imagine that bulletproof glass might make the car more impervious to break-ins.

 

[TaoJones]

Sorry. What does window tint have to do with break-ins? Just that if people can't see inside, they're less likely to bother breaking in? But that wouldn't make anything impervious. It just might discourage thieves. ??? Unless the thieves decide that the windows are tinted to hide the car's valuable contents.

I can imagine that bulletproof glass might make the car more impervious to break-ins.

That’s what C-Bond does. Makes the glass harder to break. Tint is typically applied using soapy water as a carrier. C-Bond is an alternative to soapy water alone. For the windshield exterior treatment, there’s a C-Bond product called Nanoshield. The nice part about that is it’s inexpensive and has a good warranty.

For C-Bond and tint, see starting at 1:20 of this, and for the general idea behind what’s possible with the right tint/film not just for cars but for homes and businesses, this. You definitely don’t see that every day. That’s the owner of Extreme Autowerks, and yes, that’s the front door to his business.

There is also a Level II C-Bond that is associated with bulletproof glass, but generally speaking, most of us aren’t going to pay for that in cars or homes.

 

[daniel]

Looks like a scam to me. Sorry, but that advertisement (the first of your two links) has so many indicators. The hysterical tone of the narrator, the use of sciency-sounding words like "nano-technology," the claim to repair defects, the "developed at a university" to increase the sciency impression, the obviously faked scenes of a rock hitting the windshield and doing no damage at all, and especially the obviously-faked baseball bat bouncing off with no effect. And then finally throwing in a few true but commonplace statements (window tinting keeps the car cooler and blocks UV) to give the earlier, outrageous claims a veneer of legitimacy.

I can understand tinting, though I don't care for it myself. And I can understand films and veneers and coatings to protect the paint, though I think they're overpriced for what they do. But that ad shouts "scam" so loudly I almost need to cover my ears.

If this was a legitimate tech breakthrough they'd license the patent and make a gazillion dollars, rather than selling it only through "authorized" installers.

 

[insaneoctane]

What percentage is full frontal (whole hood, bumper, front fenders, side mirrors)? That is what I think I will do. I originally thought I would just treat this like all my previous vehicles, but I have heard from enough sources that Tesla paint isn't as tough as others, so I don't want to overlook that. My previous vehicles might have benefited from a film, but their chips are relatively minor and certainly acceptable for the mileage. I know California has ridiculously strict air quality laws that could easily interfere with the getting the strongest primer and paint properly applied. Totally believable. So, I will likely go full frontal.

 

[Canuck]

Yes, my buddy who has a side business detailing cars, who mostly does this work for friends, acquiantances and referrals is secretly a thieving bastard who is bashing on the quality of Tesla paint.

No "thieving bastard" required to prove my point. It's simply called bias. I doubt he studied the molecular structure of the paint but you can correct me if I am wrong.

I've said this before in other threads where the quality of Tesla's paint is discussed, which is usually blamed on California's regulations which doesn't allow for harder paint (a bizarre allegation in itself) to please post some proof of this allegation other than opinions from detailers. I expect detailers to say things that drum up more work -- and be sincere in their allegations. Bias works that way.

"Teslas have a soft clear coat." Fiction or fact?

It's funny how detailers can miraculously turn Tesla's lousy soft paint into such a beautiful paint by just detailing it and then wrapping it. Wrapping an ugly baby still results in an ugly baby but not with Tesla's paint.

A coat of 22ple makes Tesla's paint shine like glass and gets rid of the swirl marks that all vehicle paint has -- it does the same for my wife's BMW and our Nissan Leaf. No miraculous detailers or wrap is required.

Re paint quality of Tesla - cousin works at SpaceX (paint department) and regularly goes up to Fremont for technology exchange meeting with the Tesla team. The BASF primer and paint used by Tesla is really not that different from that used by other automotive companies (who are customers of BASF).

What? You don't believe the detailer? Why would Tesla use the same paint as others. That makes no sense at all. Are you calling the detailers "thieving bastards"? How dare you!

 

[TaoJones]

Looks like a scam to me. Sorry, but that advertisement (the first of your two links) has so many indicators. The hysterical tone of the narrator, the use of sciency-sounding words like "nano-technology," the claim to repair defects, the "developed at a university" to increase the sciency impression, the obviously faked scenes of a rock hitting the windshield and doing no damage at all, and especially the obviously-faked baseball bat bouncing off with no effect. And then finally throwing in a few true but commonplace statements (window tinting keeps the car cooler and blocks UV) to give the earlier, outrageous claims a veneer of legitimacy.

I can understand tinting, though I don't care for it myself. And I can understand films and veneers and coatings to protect the paint, though I think they're overpriced for what they do. But that ad shouts "scam" so loudly I almost need to cover my ears.

If this was a legitimate tech breakthrough they'd license the patent and make a gazillion dollars, rather than selling it only through "authorized" installers.

Good luck with that, and you’re welcome.

 

[Canuck]

I know California has ridiculously strict air quality laws that could easily interfere with the getting the strongest primer and paint properly applied. Totally believable.

I take it you're being sarcastic? If not, it's totally unbelievable to me for some very simple reasons: What hardening chemical is banned and how come no one can name it? (because it's BS); If there is one, what alternative chemical is being used that causes the soft paint? And why can't they make a paint hardener with no California breaching offensive chemicals? (Of course they could -- but Tesla uses the same paint as everyone else from the main chemical paint suppliers).

If this was a legitimate tech breakthrough they'd license the patent and make a gazillion dollars, rather than selling it only through "authorized" installers.

Yes, but they'll settle for the many suckers they reel in with such over-the-top advertising and puffery claims -- and no one can argue that it pays off:

 

[voip-ninja]

No "thieving bastard" required to prove my point. It's simply called bias. I doubt he studied the molecular structure of the paint but you can correct me if I am wrong.

I've said this before in other threads where the quality of Tesla's paint is discussed, which is usually blamed on California's regulations which doesn't allow for harder paint (a bizarre allegation in itself) to please post some proof of this allegation other than opinions from detailers. I expect detailers to say things that drum up more work -- and be sincere in their allegations. Bias works that way.

I think it's entirely realistic for someone who works with automotive paint for a living to form an opinion about the relative quality of a manufacturer's paint based on hundreds if not thousands of hours working with different makes without having to provide a chroma-graph readout of what the chemical composition differences in the paint are.

You ironically posted a thread where the people who work with automotive paint for a living are simply reporting their impressions, and the impressions on Tesla paint quality seems to range from 'meh' to 'not very good' even to the point of including photos of screw-ups from the Tesla factory.

You've now pumped 22ple in at least two posts. Maybe it's great, maybe it's not. Having seen many "amazing, unbelievable, best ever" automotive detailing products come and go you are entitled to your opinion, as is anybody, but I've never seen the miracle product that is reasonably priced, easy to apply, and gives a car an incredible finish and shine that has to be seen to be believed.... and I've seen quite a few.

From what I can gather it is simply another "nano ceramic" product, like many others out there. There are plenty of high tech automotive sealers out there that offer similar performance and require periodic re-application. I don't know if the ceramic/silica products have really been out there long enough to prove their worth but I know they won't be able to handle things like rock strikes the way that a protective film can, because any kind of wax/protectant is going to be less than 10% the thickness of even the thinnest professional grade automotive films.

I've found a thread on 22ple here that seems fairly informative and includes a combination of professionals and enthusiasts.

While application looks pretty straight forward I'm not sold on it being better than any other high tech sealant based on the comments... it's also worth pointing out that there are people detailing the maintenance of product in that thread that most of us who work for a living simply won't have time to keep up with unless we have a professional doing it for us.

"Do a decontamination wash and then do a reseal with product xyzzy to recharge the sealant, then use an iron oxide product like yyy to remove this problem and then "boost" your coating with this other product".

Sounds kind of neat, but for people with a helluva lot more free time than I have.

This product is a game changer! - 22ple VX1 Pro Coating - Page 7

 

[Canuck]

I think it's entirely realistic for someone who works with automotive paint for a living to form an opinion about the relative quality of a manufacturer's paint based on hundreds if not thousands of hours working with different makes without having to provide a chroma-graph readout of what the chemical composition differences in the paint are.

Yes, it's realistic but not believable when we look at simple facts -- such as the beauty of a new pearl white Tesla, for example, compared to other vehicles and the fact that it's nonsense to believe Tesla is not using the same chemical paints as everyone else. Of course they do. It's foolish to think otherwise. The soft paint myth has been around for all automakers:

why is Porsche paint so soft? - 6SpeedOnline - Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

More here about chemical composition -- also from the above link:

TOGWT: Hard / Soft Paint Correction

And here's an explanation of the regulations in relation to automobiles:

5 Benefits of Waterborne vs. Solvent-based Automotive Paint

How Waterborne Paint Is Changing the Auto Industry | SEMA

None of this is related solely to Tesla, as you seem to think, and as you have been advised by your friend, the part-time detailer.

because any kind of wax/protectant is going to be less than 10% the thickness of even the thinnest professional grade automotive films.

Thicker is not better in my view. It's not difficult to tell a wrapped vehicle because anytime you put plastic over paint it has a dulling effect. Place a wrapped vehicle beside a "glass" coated or waxed one and there's simply no comparison. Yes, for longevity the wrap will prevent some paint chips but it's not a trade-off that sounds good to me and I drive on a ton of gravel roads, and snowy/icy roads with gravel dumped on them for traction that become projectiles especially by semis.

You've now pumped 22ple in at least two posts. Maybe it's great, maybe it's not... From what I can gather it is simply another "nano ceramic" product, like many others out there.

Yes, there's a ton of similar products and I have no affinity to 22ple except that when I researched the issue of getting rid of swirl marks and paint protection, with an outstanding glass type shine (not a dulling plastic wrap), it came highly recommended, as I see you have found out. But I was really referring to it for the point being that new paint, whether it's from Porsche, BMW, Nissan or Tesla, has swirl marks and other things that with a simple correction gets rid of them and makes the paint shine much better than all wraps, since plastic dulls the paint.

Sounds kind of neat, but for people with a helluva lot more free time than I have.

You don't have an extra half hour every six months? I run a business with a number of employees, have two homes to maintain, a wife and three kids, and I can still find 30 minutes to wash and apply the coating every six months. I also find time to BS here when I really should be working --- but life's to short to work all the time. Getting a wrap done sounds like more of a time hassle to me.

"Do a decontamination wash and then do a reseal with product xyzzy to recharge the sealant, then use an iron oxide product like yyy to remove this problem and then "boost" your coating with this other product".

Nice made-up instructions. Here's the actual ones:

1. Remove all oil/polishes on the surface by doing an IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) wipe down. Use a mixture of 50% Isopropyl Alcohol with 50% distilled water. Please make sure the surfaces are cool and TOTALLY dry before applying the glass coat.
2. Pour a small amount of glass coat liquid onto the 22ple Glass Coat Applicator and apply in a straight line motion. Make sure ALL surfaces are covered. You should then buff off the coating with a clean, lint-free microfiber towel within 3-5 minutes in normal room temperature. Should you encounter any dried coating, simply reapply another layer over it and buff.

Yep, pretty difficult and it requires a professional detailer.

Actually, it's much simpler than traditional waxing but the shine is greater and the beading lasts much longer. I bought the Isopropyl Alcohol from the dollar store, along with a spray bottle. That and some microfiber cloths are all that's needed but I also bought the Glass Coat Applicator when I bought the product.

 

[insaneoctane]

I can't tell you the VOC amounts of the paint/clearcoat used by the various manufacturers, but looking at this map seems to illustrate that Michigan allows products with about double the VOC amounts as California....
VOC Regulations by State/Region

 

[voip-ninja]

I can't tell you the VOC amounts of the paint/clearcoat used by the various manufacturers, but looking at this map seems to illustrate that Michigan allows products with about double the VOC amounts as California....
VOC Regulations by State/Region

You clearly hallucinated that.

 

[PlayaVista]

And that's assuming VOC correlates with hardness... It's been a couple of decades since my chemistry degree and personally I went with a physical barrier (film) rather than a chemical coating but that's just me.

BTW, I am being quoted $3500 for full wrap and a $1,330 for a full front wrap and this is inclusive of a discount for being this installer's first Model 3.

Anyone else have a quote?

 

[erthquake]

And that's assuming VOC correlates with hardness... It's been a couple of decades since my chemistry degree and personally I went with a physical barrier (film) rather than a chemical coating but that's just me.

BTW, I am being quoted $3500 for full wrap and a $1,330 for a full front wrap and this is inclusive of a discount for being this installer's first Model 3.

Anyone else have a quote?

Is that quote for pre-cut film or wrapped edges?

 

[insaneoctane]

I think all my quotes are over $1,500

 

[PlayaVista]

Is that quote for pre-cut film or wrapped edges?

Do not know. Will find out?

Also a question to all:

If your plan is to rent out the Model 3 for peer-to-peer car sharing, would you still wrap it?

Reasons to not wrap: additional cost that need to recuperated, P2P insurance in theory could cover small day-to-day rental damages

Reasons to wrap: easier to clean, protects vehicle longer

 

[Sappy02]

In SoCal you're looking at almost double that. I'm likely to just do the bumpers, our roads here are pretty clean compared to others and I stay away from dump trucks and other debri trucks that spew rocks and sand when on the highway.

On one of our Model S, we have the Tesla Paint Armor, which was a short lived, limited-coverage PPF option from Tesla. The other Model S we did the full aftermarket Xpel Ultimate front clip (bumper, fenders, hood, rocker, A-pillar, etc). Both have similar miles and honestly have no chips or gouges on the less covered Model S than the fully covered Model S.

But I think that depends on where you are. In the northeast, the situation could be different as the roads are not as clean and there’s a lot of grime, especially in the winter.

 

[Sappy02]

Do not know. Will find out?

Also a question to all:

If your plan is to rent out the Model 3 for peer-to-peer car sharing, would you still wrap it?

Reasons to not wrap: additional cost that need to recuperated, P2P insurance in theory could cover small day-to-day rental damages

Reasons to wrap: easier to clean, protects vehicle longer

I am in a similar situation. Considering wrapping at least a portion of the car.

 

[Sappy02]

Lesson learned it sounds like. I have seen 30 year old cars that have paint that still looks amazing and I have seen 10 year old cars where the paint is faded, chipping and peeling.

Even before I had nice cars I kept them clean. How you take care of your things says a lot about you... or does to me anyway.

Which cleaning/waxing products do you recommend to keep the car in great condition?