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What sets Tesla apart from the rest

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by AC1K, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    After talking with a tech for 3 hours and getting a defective latch fixed on my P85 i learned there is 1 HUGE customer service point that sticks out in quality compared to other makes and dealers...

    Tesla will replace parts even if they have not failed on older or first run vehicles to be on par with newer ones. (basically signature owners dont get left in the dark)
    if a part such as a control module or parts like an improved defrost vent has been updated in a newer model to be more reliable, they will do this on older cars too when they come in for service (parts, time and tech availability allowing)

    the dealerships around me (mazda, toyota, hyundai) couldn't give a shet, i asked one of the dealers to update my bluetooth firmware in my old car and even referenced the technical service bulletin number, they hummed and hawwed and in the end they told me to download it off the internet (WTF), no dealership to my knowledge will retroactively replace parts like Tesla.

    unless its a recall or a severe drive-ability affecting technical service bulletin dealerships will not replace parts

    To me, the 6 digit price tag i paid is well worth it just for this level of service alone. (i'm in Canada BTW)


    also another thing for some owners, STOP SUPER CHARGING EVERY DAY! :cursing:
     
  2. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    3 Hours--I hope you weren't talking the whole time :biggrin:

    What do you mean by your super charging everyday comment?
     
  3. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    #3 AC1K, Sep 6, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013

    working and talking at the same time :)

    the tech said the super chargers already have lines forming because people are just using them every day since they are its free. (the people that are using them are the SAME people)

    but this will have an overall negative effect since super charging will put additional stress on the battery, unnecessary stressing of the battery will cause a higher failure rate,
    this in turn will produce more RMAs, more money lost, more time lost, and its all due to people's ignorance.

    similarly with gas vehicles, you dont rev to redline every shift do you?

    anyways on a brighter note, with some more "forced" hypermiling habits i was able to nearly double my rated range for my normal drive to work.

    Booyaaaaa.... 98Wh/km (normal is approx 180-200, ideal-rated respectively), this is the equiv to 230MPGe

    20130906_173139.jpg
    20130906_173153.jpg
     
  4. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    I didn't know that Superchargers caused stress. Why would Tesla allow that to happen if they know its not good for the battery?
     
  5. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    shoving 400v @ 300 amps into anything causes stress, the battery can take it but if you do it every day it will cause premature degradation.

    if you cycle your laptop battery (full charge, full drain until voltage cutoff) every day, i doubt your pack will last a full year. however, if you use it "normally" and do partial cycles, it can last 4-5 years (my lenovo battery with battery management charge cut off set at 60% has lost less than 1% of its original capacity after a year), how you use it makes a real big difference.

    its wear and tear, but this situation is slightly different as its "free" and Tesla warranties the battery for 8 years, and unfortunately people will take advantage of this.
     
  6. Anarr

    Anarr Member

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    It doesn't stress the battery, Tesla have stated multiple times that you could supercharge everyday and not damage it. The only things that will cause serious battery degradation is keeping a 100% charge while its hot.
     
  7. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    any rapid high amperage charging will damage any type of cell since all cells have internal resistance, and the higher the amps, the higher the internal temperature while charging.
    high temps will destroy batteries, tesla has minimized this by using an active liquid cooling system but it still stresses the battery since you can maintain 20C while you super charge.

    its 120kW of power, you try shoving that into any other EV and it will EXPLODE.

    also http://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html point 8
     
  8. Anarr

    Anarr Member

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    So Tesla were lying about the battery being designed to handle it with no problems then?
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I sense a disturbance in the force. It's as if 1000 posts cried out and were suddenly rerouted to the appropriate threads.
     
  10. evme

    evme Member

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    Right, but there is a good reason why a Nissan Leaf for example would explode and the Tesla Model S would not, and its not only related to the cooling. In the nissan leaf you have a 24 kwh battery, charging it at 120kwh would be charging it at 5x capacity. For a Tesla Model S, 120kwh is only 1.3x capacity. 1.3x capacity is insignificant overall. Now sure you can argue what the ideal % of capacity for maximizing the battery life is (though it varies by battery chemistry and Tesla uses a unique NCA battery chemistry compared to the other guys). But overall, you can probably charge every day at a supercharger for 10 years and it would be insignificant.
     
  11. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    The battery probably CAN handle supercharging everyday with no ill effects, but not supercharging exclusively everyday. I think AC1K was referring to people using the supercharger as their only power source because it is free (and close by, apparently). I think this would exceed even Tesla's allotted usage for proper battery maintenance.
     
  12. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    This topic has been discussed greatly in many other threads. I have also been told by a high level Tesla service manager that supercharging everyday is probably the worst thing that you could do to harm the battery for the exact reasons stated above. However, Tesla's official position is that this is safe to do. So they are in direct conflict with each other. Only time will tell.

    I don't think anyone at all (even Tesla) will deny that charging at high rate (and thus high temps) is *really* bad for lithium ion batteries. This is a FACT. Everybody knows this. Nobody is trying to hide that. *HOWEVER*, the question at large is whether or not their "cooling solution" to keep temps stable during this process + the "step down" rate past 80% is sufficient enough to *100% completely* negate those effects making the entire process safe, no different than charging at a slow rate, and have absolutely no effect on the long term health of the battery or degradation rates.

    The engineering side of me says "well, if the worst thing you could do is charge at high temps, especially over 80% capacity, then logically if their cooling solution keeps temp stable during this process, and they combined that with the step-down method over 80%, then I don't see how this would have any effect on the health of the battery at all." I do know that Tesla has spent YEARS in the lab intentionally exploding batteries and doing all sorts of crazy stuff to find out these things. I personally trust their technical solution. I seriously doubt that that the supercharging process is detrimental to battery life. Common sense says "why would they do this if they know it's going to kill the batteries in all their cars". that would just run them into the ground and game over for Tesla. No way they would do that intentionally. The fact that they are also increasing power from 90kWh to 120kWh also tells me that they think it's safe to do this even faster.

    so far Tesla is 'mum' on the "local people are using superchargers exclusively and causing problems (lines) for those that are going on road trips" topic.
     
  13. zax123

    zax123 CDN Model S P308

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    Can you please elaborate as to your hypermiling techniques? I'm very curious...
     
  14. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    If we don't already have a thread on that, I'd love to see one started AC1K.
     
  15. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    Thoughts on hypermiling the Tesla…
     
  16. joshuaeven

    joshuaeven Member

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    The point was, I think, that it's unfortunate that some folks are using the Superchargers as their daily top-off because they live near one. Those stations are designed for folks traveling long distances. When someone abuses them, not only are they causing extra stress on their own battery pack, they are taking a charging spot from someone who MUST CHARGE to get to their destination. The EV culture is young. These behaviors need to be addressed so we can move forward.
     
  17. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Those stations can be used by ANY Tesla owner at ANY time.

    There is no 'abuse' in using the charging station--a Tesla buyer paid for it, so I say use as much as they want. No law against that (please feel free to point me to Tesla documentation stating not for daily use).

    I don't live close enough to one to make use of it everyday, so I don't really care either way.

    Charge up often and free--go for it!
     
  18. gocken2

    gocken2 Model S: P6931

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    I think you will change your tune as soon as you take a trip with your MS and find all the charging stations taken.
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    This stuff backfires. Our local Nissan dealership installed three J1772 plugs out front and allowed anyone to use them. It was open during regular business hours.
    I would stop by in my Roadster as it was a good stop after a long drive to get a bump to get the extra few miles home. The salesmen would always come out and oogle the car. There would often be a Volt and a dealership Leaf plugged in there. Driving on occasion by I saw a customer Leaf (with HOV stickers), Mitsubishi and Think plugged in there.

    Then some guy who worked down the street started to park there, plug in and go to work. Then he would pick up his car at the end of the day.

    The dealership stopped allowing outside charging.
     
  20. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Okay. Considering there are 8 chargers typically at each SC area and it only takes 30 min, I think all will be fine. After all it's 'free' so can't complain if you have to wait.

    Good news about Texas, there are not in major metropolitan areas, so no worries.

    I hope all chargers are full, that means a bunch of people are buying Tesla's--all good!

    Charge away....

    _____

    vfx - I hear you. However, that is a private business and they were not put up by Tesla for Tesla owners. The SC are for all Tesla owners to use. Again, not a biggie for me, but think getting angry at people for using something they paid for seems futile.
     

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