What should my ideal charge percentage be?

[Fiver]

I just bought a 2014 P85+ a few weeks ago, the few times I've charged to 100% for a trip, it charged to 243 so it's lost about 9% over the years. I'd like to preserve the battery as much as possible.
I charge now to 80% and recharge at about 20% every 3-4 days. It seems if I charge at the max 48amps it charges the quickest but has the least inefficiency according to Teslafi. If I charge at 20-25amps it does much better. So not sure if slower is better or not.
Also, some of the suggestions are to charge to 50% and charge more frequently. But does doing that effect battery life more due to increased charge cycles?

If you have a P85+ that can charge at 48amps, you have dual chargers, and can actually charge up to 80 amps. I had a 2013 P85+ (with dual chargers) and miss it every day. It was a phenomenal car. My X is still ok, but man the way that P85+ drove... It was a real drivers car.

Anyway, you can theoretically buy a Gen2 charger off eBay, and if you have the spare capacity in your home panel, wire it up for 80amp charging. I never once needed 80amp charging on my car, but it was nice when the occasional free destination chargers around me had that level of service to soak up as much free juice as possible while eating out or, in my lucky case, working out at my gym. (gym still has 80 amp chargers today)

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I have not changed anything. I plug in and leave plugged in. It charges to 90%. I do not expect to keep the vehicle more than 3 years

M

Good for you but you are clearly not a serious contender to this discussion.

I couldn’t have said it better. Even my 2010/11 Leaf (with the absolute worst battery of any EV) was fine at 3 years charging to 100% every night. If anyone is interested in actually keeping their EV for 3+ years, then store daily at as close to 50% SOC as possible. Charge whatever one needs to do the daily use (e.g., charge to 60%, use 20% that day, discharge to 40%, and then recharge to 60%). It’s not rocket science. If you don’t care, or plan on getting rid of the EV in 3 years, then charge to >80% every night. Personally, I’m still using a 10+ yo Leaf and leaving it at 50% +/-10% SOC every night, only charging to 80% as needed. It still works as originally intended (in-town use only, daily trips to school, work, grocery, etc) BECAUSE the battery is treated properly. If you want to destroy the battery quickly, then charge to >80% daily, leave at a high SOC, an watch it degrade. BTW, my 2015 S70D makes additional noise and continues to suck down electrons when “stored” above 50-60%. This is probably a waste of energy as well, so I store it at 50% until needed to drive more than 100 mi.

 

[Cheburashka]

I dunno. I seldom charge past 60 and my range is now a max of 220 on my 2016.5 75D, which is fairly significant degradation.

 

[Candleflame]

Replacing a car every 3 years is just mental and american consumerism.

 

[Jasper7821]

Better to charge more often with shallower cycles. A full cycle is 100% to 0 to 100%. If you charge from 50% to 60%, that's only 1/10th of a cycle. It's not the quantity of charges as much as the depth of charges.

Thank You, makes sense. When I first bought the car and tested to see how many miles it'll charge to it was 243. Now that I've taken it on a trip and charged several times and also slow charged several times, it now will charge to 246. (not physically charging it to 100%, but moving the slider in the app to 100% to see what it says then slide it back to 80%.
So did I gain a few miles back by conditioning the battery with low amperage charging?

 

[aerodyne]

Thank You, makes sense. When I first bought the car and tested to see how many miles it'll charge to it was 243. Now that I've taken it on a trip and charged several times and also slow charged several times, it now will charge to 246. (not physically charging it to 100%, but moving the slider in the app to 100% to see what it says then slide it back to 80%.
So did I gain a few miles back by conditioning the battery with low amperage charging?

Probably not. The range estimator with fluctuate quite a bit with pack temp and cell imbalance.

I have seen as much as 277 and as little as 249 miles rated range.

More important is the pack nominal capacity which you can see with CANbus reader and app like SMT. After a moderate drive and charge, I see 77KwH out of approx 80.5KwH new for my June 15 build 85 pack.

String 2, module 2 is always low, about 20mv on average. If it dies at least it is up front and easy to access.

 

[Jasper7821]

If you have a P85+ that can charge at 48amps, you have dual chargers, and can actually charge up to 80 amps. I had a 2013 P85+ (with dual chargers) and miss it every day. It was a phenomenal car. My X is still ok, but man the way that P85+ drove... It was a real drivers car.

Anyway, you can theoretically buy a Gen2 charger off eBay, and if you have the spare capacity in your home panel, wire it up for 80amp charging. I never once needed 80amp charging on my car, but it was nice when the occasional free destination chargers around me had that level of service to soak up as much free juice as possible while eating out or, in my lucky case, working out at my gym. (gym still has 80 amp chargers today)

This is the only Tesla I've driven, so I don't have anything to compare to, but I am so thrilled that I spent way more than I should've instead of some of the other choices of used cars I was going to buy.
Yes I have dual chargers, I tried to find a Gen2 but everything was really high priced. I also wanted a Gen2 because my electric company has a awesome rebate. For charging stations that charge 50amps or higher, they give you a $500 credit towards your electric bill, and $300 credit for under 50 amps but it has to be new and from a authorized reseller. I found some new on Craigslist that they were selling overpriced $7-800, but still would've been a good deal with the $500 discount but since it had to be from a company, that wouldn't work.
I bought a Gen3 for $500 and got a $300 credit on the electric bill, so it was still an awesome deal.

 

[Jasper7821]

Probably not. The range estimator with fluctuate quite a bit with pack temp and cell imbalance.

I have seen as much as 277 and as little as 249 miles rated range.

More important is the pack nominal capacity which you can see with CANbus reader and app like SMT. After a moderate drive and charge, I see 77KwH out of approx 80.5KwH new for my June 15 build 85 pack.

String 2, module 2 is always low, about 20mv on average. If it dies at least it is up front and easy to access.

Thank You, The guy I bought the car from said he always drove the car fairly aggressively, but it was a really good deal so I bought it. He had to have the drive unit replaced twice under warranty in the two years he owned it. He actually had it sold, but it broke down just before the person bought it. It went into the shop and Tesla replaced the drive unit the week before I bought it so hopefully I'll have no issues with that. The battery was the main thing I was concerned about. But since it seems to have lost just under 10% since 2014, I think it'll be ok. The warranty is up in March.

I'll research the ways to find out nominal capacity you suggested and see what it says.
I used to race RC cars 20yrs ago and remember building battery packs and trying to use the cells that matched the closest. I'm guessing the same would apply here.

 

[Jasper7821]

I couldn’t have said it better. Even my 2010/11 Leaf (with the absolute worst battery of any EV) was fine at 3 years charging to 100% every night. If anyone is interested in actually keeping their EV for 3+ years, then store daily at as close to 50% SOC as possible. Charge whatever one needs to do the daily use (e.g., charge to 60%, use 20% that day, discharge to 40%, and then recharge to 60%). It’s not rocket science. If you don’t care, or plan on getting rid of the EV in 3 years, then charge to >80% every night. Personally, I’m still using a 10+ yo Leaf and leaving it at 50% +/-10% SOC every night, only charging to 80% as needed. It still works as originally intended (in-town use only, daily trips to school, work, grocery, etc) BECAUSE the battery is treated properly. If you want to destroy the battery quickly, then charge to >80% daily, leave at a high SOC, an watch it degrade. BTW, my 2015 S70D makes additional noise and continues to suck down electrons when “stored” above 50-60%. This is probably a waste of energy as well, so I store it at 50% until needed to drive more than 100 mi.

I sold my 2015 Fusion Energi and got the P85+ a few weeks ago. I bought it new and charged to 100% almost twice a day (charged at home and work) since new because my work roundtrip commute was way more than the car would go on electric.
After 3yrs I lost 50% capacity, took it to Ford several times and kept getting denied a warranty battery as they said it was normal degradation.
Since the Tesla provides way more miles than needed for work, I'm trying to baby the battery as best as possible.

 

[aerodyne]

Thank You, The guy I bought the car from said he always drove the car fairly aggressively, but it was a really good deal so I bought it. He had to have the drive unit replaced twice under warranty in the two years he owned it. He actually had it sold, but it broke down just before the person bought it. It went into the shop and Tesla replaced the drive unit the week before I bought it so hopefully I'll have no issues with that. The battery was the main thing I was concerned about. But since it seems to have lost just under 10% since 2014, I think it'll be ok. The warranty is up in March.

I'll research the ways to find out nominal capacity you suggested and see what it says.
I used to race RC cars 20yrs ago and remember building battery packs and trying to use the cells that matched the closest. I'm guessing the same would apply here.

The jury is still out if these packs can be repaired. You are in the normal degradation range, so don't worry about it.

However SMT is useful in many ways. It will show you where the power is going and you can use that to increase range.

My trip efficiency has increased 5% in the last year, 279wh/mi now and dropping.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I sold my 2015 Fusion Energi and got the P98+ a few weeks ago. I bought it new and charged to 100% almost twice a day (charged at home and work) since new because my work roundtrip commute was way more than the car would go on electric.
After 3yrs I lost 50% capacity, took it to Ford several times and kept getting denied a warranty battery as they said it was normal degradation.
Since the Tesla provides way more miles than needed for work, I'm trying to baby the battery as best as possible.

That’s similar to the record 2011 Leaf by TaylorSFguy. He drove 130 mi daily, charging to 100% at home and work. Eventually bought a new Leaf because Nissan wouldn’t provide a price (or availability) for a replacement battery. Eventually gave it to his mother after reaching 150,000 mi in just a couple of years. Remember, this had a 72mi EPA range, so that’s 2000 cycles which would be roughly equivalent to 600,000 mi on a 300 mi EPA Tesla. Sad to see the lack of battery replacement, but remember that car manufacturers are in the business of selling CARS (not BATTERIES), which is where they make the profits. Selling just a replacement battery is probably a loss.

 

[Jasper7821]

The jury is still out if these packs can be repaired. You are in the normal degradation range, so don't worry about it.

However SMT is useful in many ways. It will show you where the power is going and you can use that to increase range.

My trip efficiency has increased 5% in the last year, 279wh/mi now and dropping.

I researched battery repair before I bought the car and found a place that swaps the battery for a repaired one for $6,000. That helped me make the decision to buy the car. If something ever went wrong with the battery after the warranty runs out, it could be replaced for 6k plus $1,500-2k for auto transport.
I looked in the app store and I don't see anything called SMT, is that the full name?
And 279wh/mi is incredible. I tried my hardest on my work commute that last two days and best I can do is 301.
Just took a 1,100 mile trip and wanted to get there as quick as possible, since the car has free supercharging, I had CC set to 90 most of the trip and when I got home it used 370wh/mi avg. which I thought was pretty good for the speed I went.

 

[Jasper7821]

That’s similar to the record 2011 Leaf by TaylorSFguy. He drove 130 mi daily, charging to 100% at home and work. Eventually bought a new Leaf because Nissan wouldn’t provide a price (or availability) for a replacement battery. Eventually gave it to his mother after reaching 150,000 mi in just a couple of years. Remember, this had a 72mi EPA range, so that’s 2000 cycles which would be roughly equivalent to 600,000 mi on a 300 mi EPA Tesla. Sad to see the lack of battery replacement, but remember that car manufacturers are in the business of selling CARS (not BATTERIES), which is where they make the profits. Selling just a replacement battery is probably a loss.

My Fusion was down to 10-12 miles when I sold it, was still a great car and got over 40mpg on trips. After 130k miles, it still looked and ran like new (except for the battery), but after 7yrs I just got bored of it. So happy I got a Tesla, been wanting one since the first Model S came out.

 

[aerodyne]

I researched battery repair before I bought the car and found a place that swaps the battery for a repaired one for $6,000. That helped me make the decision to buy the car. If something ever went wrong with the battery after the warranty runs out, it could be replaced for 6k plus $1,500-2k for auto transport.
I looked in the app store and I don't see anything called SMT, is that the full name?
And 279wh/mi is incredible. I tried my hardest on my work commute that last two days and best I can do is 301.
Just took a 1,100 mile trip and wanted to get there as quick as possible, since the car has free supercharging, I had CC set to 90 most of the trip and when I got home it used 370wh/mi avg. which I thought was pretty good for the speed I went.

Love to know that repair option, 6k sounds too good to be true. If Gruber motors, well, as I said, the jury is still out on that, IMO.

If the car was driven hard, and you only have 10% loss over 7 years, you will be fine I think.

Three years ago, 5.5k road trip, LA to Chicago and return, averaged 313 Wh/mi. Doing 73 to 82 mph.

If you drive a lot with free SuC, it could pay for your next battery pack. Best x country speeds will be obtained by charging to 70-80%, and down to say 15%.

Don't spend years worrying about the battery like I did and get BMS OCD..

Set energy to percent, and drive the car. 'nuf said.

SMT, Scan My Tesla...you will need a reader and adapter cable. Large thread here on TMC...

 

[jerry33]

Any idea on what the real world experience is for Model Ss that have been in the field for many years and have had hundreds of charge cycles? Surely we should have a better understanding of how those batteries have degraded over time? I have had my car for 6.5 years and I am nowhere near a pioneer as people have had cars for several years longer and driver WAY more than me as I have only driven 65,000km in my time.

When I traded it in (March 2020) for an X, my early 2013 S 85 had 130,000 miles and as best I can tell 8% degradation. Charged at 90% for daily use, 100% at the start of every trip. 50% commute, 50% road trips.

 

[Jasper7821]

Love to know that repair option, 6k sounds too good to be true. If Gruber motors, well, as I said, the jury is still out on that, IMO.

If the car was driven hard, and you only have 10% loss over 7 years, you will be fine I think.

Three years ago, 5.5k road trip, LA to Chicago and return, averaged 313 Wh/mi. Doing 73 to 82 mph.

If you drive a lot with free SuC, it could pay for your next battery pack. Best x country speeds will be obtained by charging to 70-80%, and down to say 15%.

Don't spend years worrying about the battery like I did and get BMS OCD..

Set energy to percent, and drive the car. 'nuf said.

SMT, Scan My Tesla...you will need a reader and adapter cable. Large thread here on TMC...

This is what the company said on another forum I asked the question. And I was wrong, they don't repair battery packs, they replace them.

"To be clear, we don't repair battery packs. We replace them entirely. We're able to do this at a cost much lower than Tesla because almost always there is value we can recover from the original battery pack despite no longer being usable in the vehicle for whatever reason.

Because of this, average 85/90 replacement net cost is about $6000 at our shop currently. Shipping to/from the west coast is usually about $1000-1500 each way."

057 Technology

057 Technology, LLC

057tech.com

The prior owner had it for only two years, he bought it CPO from Tesla so the first owner probably took good care of it. I'm hoping the battery will be fine for years, but with this company out for replacing it for 6k, I'm so much less worried.
I only use the superchargers when on a trip and that will probably only be once every few months or so. Plus I have solar, so home charging isn't expensive at all.
And I have OCD already, but I like crunching numbers so playing with Tesla efficiency is kinda fun.

Thanks for the SMC info, I'll check it out and get my OCD fix

 

[aerodyne]

This is what the company said on another forum I asked the question. And I was wrong, they don't repair battery packs, they replace them.

"To be clear, we don't repair battery packs. We replace them entirely. We're able to do this at a cost much lower than Tesla because almost always there is value we can recover from the original battery pack despite no longer being usable in the vehicle for whatever reason.

Because of this, average 85/90 replacement net cost is about $6000 at our shop currently. Shipping to/from the west coast is usually about $1000-1500 each way."

057 Technology

057 Technology, LLC

057tech.com

The prior owner had it for only two years, he bought it CPO from Tesla so the first owner probably took good care of it. I'm hoping the battery will be fine for years, but with this company out for replacing it for 6k, I'm so much less worried.
I only use the superchargers when on a trip and that will probably only be once every few months or so. Plus I have solar, so home charging isn't expensive at all.
And I have OCD already, but I like crunching numbers so playing with Tesla efficiency is kinda fun.

Thanks for the SMC info, I'll check it out and get my OCD fix

Been reading Jason's posts, had no Idea he could do a pack replacement so cheap.

Going with a 90 pack should increase SuC speeds if not range.

Don't worry about moderate SuC use hurting the pack. SuC or even home charging over 77% will turn all the pumps on and slow you down with reduced efficiency.

Tesloop SuC charged their fleet to 100% daily and they all went well north of 200k miles.

Set Energy to percent. Don't think about the pack. Direct your OCD to paint chips and the whole PPF/coatings vortex if you must.

You don't want to be OCD about the pack. Still recovering after 2+ years.

 

[Jasper7821]

Been reading Jason's posts, had no Idea he could do a pack replacement so cheap.

Going with a 90 pack should increase SuC speeds if not range.

Don't worry about moderate SuC use hurting the pack. SuC or even home charging over 77% will turn all the pumps on and slow you down with reduced efficiency.

Tesloop SuC charged their fleet to 100% daily and they all went well north of 200k miles.

Set Energy to percent. Don't think about the pack. Direct your OCD to paint chips and the whole PPF/coatings vortex if you must.

You don't want to be OCD about the pack. Still recovering after 2+ y

Thank you, will try keeping it on %. And I spent 10hrs doing paint correction on my little 986 due to my OCD. It would take days on this car and there's no way I'm going to do it again. The hood and bumper had been repainted and not the best job, so with OCD I have issues with that. BUT, this is my daily driver and it sits outside in the sun for 12hrs a day at work so I have to tame the OCD to keep me happy with the car.

 

[Fiver]

057 Technology

057 Technology, LLC

057tech.com

Oh that's Jason, aka wk057 here on the forums. He most certainly knows his sh*t when it comes to Tesla, EV's, Batteries, and Solar. He's one of the OG Tesla hackers, added AP hardware to his wife's Pre-AP P85 just to prove it could be done, and then concluded that that it was WAAAAY too much work for Tesla to ever offer to the general public. I think he also upgraded/swapped the pack in that same car from a 85 to a 90 pack before anyone else knew if that was even possible.

 

[Jasper7821]

Oh that's Jason, aka wk057 here on the forums. He most certainly knows his sh*t when it comes to Tesla, EV's, Batteries, and Solar. He's one of the OG Tesla hackers, added AP hardware to his wife's Pre-AP P85 just to prove it could be done, and then concluded that that it was WAAAAY too much work for Tesla to ever offer to the general public. I think he also upgraded/swapped the pack in that same car from a 85 to a 90 pack before anyone else knew if that was even possible.

I'm very thankful for his post to me saying they could replace the battery for 6k if I ever needed it. That's what sealed the deal for me getting an older S with high miles. If not for that, I would have been too scared to get my car because it totally tapped me out and can't afford it anyways. I was going to get a much older Cayenne to go with my 986 weekend cruiser. But with the more money spent on the S, I'll probably have to sell the Porsche which I'm fine with since I've only driven it a few times since I got the Tesla.