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What we are to expect and what might be a better car

Discussion in 'Roadster 2022' started by Cloxxki, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Active Member

    Joined:
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    Expected/promised:
    200 kWh
    1.9 0-60 mph
    quick to 400 kph
    1,000+ km EPA range
    3 motors
    We have to assume these motors would be big fat Performance induction ones to have such short range in a small frontal surface car. At the same time, we need to assume a 2,000 kg car, if not more.

    Perhaps better would be:
    120 kWh
    similar 0-60 and 1/4 mi thanks to:
    three or four motors taken from Model 3, or off the shelf pancake motors
    some with clutched to fully disengage.
    400-500 kg lighter
    Still 800 km range due to lower weight and efficient motor
    Much quicker around the track (weight, less heat buildup)

    Now, for the promised/joked Space X package.
    I'm not sure it will happen although I do think it's doable and can get a 2-ton car off the ground momentarily or add some boost and even cornering speed and stability.
    Imagine this system being a 200 kg add-on. It would add much more performance to the 400-500 kg lighter car than the 200 kWh one we're promised. Does 200 km of range really matter, to you? On the track, the lighter version would pull ahead midway through the first corner at worst and then never be caught. If the 200 kWh car gets further on the track, it will be due to power restrictions causing it to go even less fast.
    Imagine the standard car with Space X package can just hover for just over a second. But in the lighter car, it's enough to take off, and turn around in a dead end alley. Then jump over the police car blocking the exit. OK, I'm exaggeration :)

    200 kWh in any one 2-seater is crazy wasteful. And sticking only induction motors would add 10-15% more consumption for every km driven. It's kind of fun but a double bitch slap for Mother Earth.
    Why not go about New Roadster a bit more economically? For most performance indicators, weight cannot be overcome with power. High speed is the one where weight is not the worst thing. But high speed in 1 atm is just daft, right?
    How many miles would a New Roadster need to log before breaking even for environmental footprint with a run of the mill supercar? Will it ever log such miles? If no, then it's more wasteful than the supercars most of us frown unop.
    80 of these are given to people who most likely would not have bought one. This makes them a CO2 emission no-one asked for. Not as green as some will try and pretend it to be. Guilt free acceleration? Guess again.

    I plea for Tesla to be less hooligan, and be more sensible about the new Roadster. The old one wins eco races, the new one would get less range per kWh than a Model X?
    As someone who cares for more than one performance indicator, and who hates to breath tire dust, I'd rather see a somewhat lightweight Roadster which can still do high speed, still beats all ICEVs to 60mph and 1/4mi, but is less of a boat around the track, the one place it can be let loose while turning the front wheels.

    I fear some hateful replies for imagining something could be done better than what Tesla is telling they're going to do (even if already they have shown they can indeed do better), but I do hope this can be a civilized discussion. Please surprise me.
     
  2. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    I prefer option a
    Not buying a Roadster to track it.
    If I wanted s track car I’d get a Porsche, heck I’d even prefer my M5 on the track vs the Roadster
     
    • Like x 1
  3. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    The Roadster that Elon specified is not the one that I would have specified. I would have gone for something less extreme: less battery and range, less "plaid" performance, lower price point. A target price similar to the Model S would have allowed the production of a very well-balanced and desirable sports car. However, it wouldn't have broken a string of world records and put the smack down on every gasoline-powered supercar in the world, which was what Elon wanted. So, that's what he gets.

    I've got to say, though, that aside from a price tag double anything I ever would previously have contemplated spending on a car, the prototype that we've been shown does look pretty damn awesome. I can't think of anything I'd change to make it a "better car" as such.

    And there's always the possibility that some years down the road we might get a "superleggera" variant with half the battery and a lower price point. But that would probably be moot for me, since I'm not inclined to wait some unspecified years longer for something that might or might not ever exist.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. ZoomsansVroom

    ZoomsansVroom Supporting Member

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    I assume, just due to weight, it will be more of a GT than a track car.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. ICUDoc

    ICUDoc Active Member

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    Yes, this.
    The specs presented at the original Roadster event were just fine- the big battery gives mega power and mega range and that's what I want.
    A DIFFERENT car would be fab at the track- but it isn't the Roadster 2020. A lighter version is fine, but I don't want that to delay the promised one!!
     
  6. tstafford

    tstafford Active Member

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    I agree with this mostly although I will track it at least a few times. The most compelling spec from the initial announcement for me was the range. I want the roadster because I've always wanted a smaller Tesla but the M3 just seemed to cheap on the inside to be enjoyable. I expect Roadster ownership to be a terrific experience - whenever that happens!
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    I agree 200 kWh is adding far too much weight for the headline range and top end speed. But I don't think a lot of people fully realise the implications weight has for handling on road or track.

    The car itself looks amazing, but I'm not interested if it ends up as heavy or heavier than a Model S.
     
  8. TMThree

    TMThree Active Member

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    Good thing the roadster is a 4 seater then!
     
  9. ICUDoc

    ICUDoc Active Member

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    Peteski, I take your point- it ain't gonna be a track car in the initially advertised form.
    But it will be a winner, if it is as advertised on the reveal day. I don't want to track my car, don't even care if it's known to be inferior around a track to, say, a 918. I just want to see some more details to know that it is 'on track' to be delivered next year....
     
  10. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    I'm not looking for a track day car either. But our local roads are great driver's roads with lots of interesting bends and crests. A heavyweight sports car like a 200 kWh Roadster would just feel like a boat. The 100 kWh Model S is already too heavy to be much fun and I expect the M3 will feel way more nimble on our roads. Obviously if you are just cruising along straight line highways and city grids it doesn't really matter. But if I'm buying a £200k+ Supercar I want it to be nimble and fun to drive. Lugging a 200 kWh battery seems like carrying a millstone around - literally! I would be happy with 100 kWh and hundreds of kilos lighter. It needs to get well under the weight of a current Model S P100D too, which I think is highly unlikely in the advertised battery spec.
     
  11. SDRick

    SDRick Active Member

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    If the current performance M3 beats the M3 BMW on the track I would hope the Roadster would do the same against any BMW or Porsche. However it is configured I hope it will be a severe smack down to ice from the Ring to the street and everywhere between. Too much to ask, perhaps but the specs look amazing but it will need to handle like a slot car. If Tesla can really do that, bye bye ice even faster!
     
    • Like x 1
  12. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    That's the problem with using a 200 kWh battery. It will simply be too heavy to trouble a lightweight Porsche on road or track. The Model 3 with a 75 kWh battery just about gets away with being a little heavier than a BMW M3. Configuration of the Roadster will be key to its success as a serious sports car and battery size is by far the biggest influence on total kerb weight.
     
  13. SDRick

    SDRick Active Member

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    Time (hopefully not too much) will tell.
     
  14. ZoomsansVroom

    ZoomsansVroom Supporting Member

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    If its going to be a "sports car" they really should try to get down to ~2500#. I know most sports cars are about 3500# these days, but it makes a tremendous difference.

    Nothing wrong with a 4000# GT though. Frankly, it makes for something much more enjoyable as a daily driver.
     
  15. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    I'm not sure how being "heavy" makes it more enjoyable as a daily driver? Obviously big luxury GTs tend to be relatively heavy out of necessity, but that's no reason to go making it the weight of say a Model X 100D, which it probably will be if it has a 200 kWh battery. Even the Model S is already a bit too heavy for its own good, but we're talking about literally doubling the battery capacity here. Even as a sporty GT I wouldn't want it to be over 2000 kg for the sake of some top trumps range and top end performance. It needs to have some decent handling capability to go with the looks and image, especially outside of a drag strip as a daily driver.
     
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    When I purchased a Model S in 2013, the price was in fact double what I had ever spent on a car. And I had no regrets.

    I expect the new Roadster will not disappoint. :cool:
     
    • Like x 3

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