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What will be the advantages for Tesla users if all Tesla charging stations become publicly available?
- Thread starter jim.peeters.93
- Start date
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
The more the Superchargers are used (by Tesla owner and non-Tesla owners),
the moreTesla will build new one. So kind of win-win situation.
There are tons of bad comments regarding the poor reliability of non-Tesla Superchargers.
Those users experiencing then the Tesla Supercharging network would certainly get influenced when selecting their next EV.
Tesla was able to get a pice of the US grant that other superchargers were getting.
the moreTesla will build new one. So kind of win-win situation.
There are tons of bad comments regarding the poor reliability of non-Tesla Superchargers.
Those users experiencing then the Tesla Supercharging network would certainly get influenced when selecting their next EV.
Tesla was able to get a pice of the US grant that other superchargers were getting.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
You mean about payment?
Since the Tesla Superchargers don't have any credit card reader or NFC reader,
the only way to activate the charging session is to use the Tesla App, even if you don'y own a Tesla.
Non-Tesla Supercharger Pilot | Tesla Support
Launched in November 2021, our Non-Tesla Supercharger pilot will continue to expand to new sites and countries in support of our mission to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
Tesla Lays Groundwork in US to Implement Access for Non-Tesla EVs to its Superchargers via App
Tesla continues to work towards providing access for non-Tesla electric vehicles to its Superchargers in the US. The company has added the “Charge Your Non-Tesla” option to the Tesla App in a new update.
www.tesmanian.com
Electricity is a commodity, just like fuel for ICE cars. Just as there's no Ford gas station, there really shouldn't be any exclusivity in charging. It's an unfortunate side-effect of the multiple plug standards. In the future you can expect all stations to be able to charge all cars. As long as there are enough stations, it doesn't matter. Again, just like gas for ICE cars.
For Tesla drivers there will be disadvantages.
In Europe Tesla already did open Superchargers in some countries.
I do not know how bad it is in other contries than Sweden but in Sweden theres is a lot of chaos since the SuC network opened a couple of months ago.
- The biggest problem is that car with the charge ports at other positions can not connect the charge cable without parking so at least one other ( = two) Superchargers is blocked. Sometimes there have been cars blocking three chargers.
People does not give a *sugar* to try to minimize the blocked chargers, they just park so they can connect.
A few places have gotten a new layout to support cars with other charging ports.
- There is no que system so there is no line for waiting cars. In most cases this seemed to work fine or at least okey when only teslas could charge but now the reports from people charging is that it really the wild west and if the latest arriving car that would be last in line get the chance it will cut the line and steal a charger ( = two).
-Some cars do not charge fast, so they steal a charger for long.
Discussions in forums shows these issues, not all chargers are full but the ones that was hot spots before are now overcrowded.
A lot of tesla owners is not happy but you can not almost even complain on the forums as people with no teslas get angry and call for car brand rasism.
Non Tesla drivers complain about the short charging cables and they see it as a big failure from tesla having too short charging cables for other cars.
I havent been affected, I have stayed out of the hot spots.
I think the idea of opening for other brands is idealy a good thing for the world but it is not that for the Tesla driver today.
It is not Teslas job to fix the problem with a non existing charging network for all other car brands.
In Europe Tesla already did open Superchargers in some countries.
I do not know how bad it is in other contries than Sweden but in Sweden theres is a lot of chaos since the SuC network opened a couple of months ago.
- The biggest problem is that car with the charge ports at other positions can not connect the charge cable without parking so at least one other ( = two) Superchargers is blocked. Sometimes there have been cars blocking three chargers.
People does not give a *sugar* to try to minimize the blocked chargers, they just park so they can connect.
A few places have gotten a new layout to support cars with other charging ports.
- There is no que system so there is no line for waiting cars. In most cases this seemed to work fine or at least okey when only teslas could charge but now the reports from people charging is that it really the wild west and if the latest arriving car that would be last in line get the chance it will cut the line and steal a charger ( = two).
-Some cars do not charge fast, so they steal a charger for long.
Discussions in forums shows these issues, not all chargers are full but the ones that was hot spots before are now overcrowded.
A lot of tesla owners is not happy but you can not almost even complain on the forums as people with no teslas get angry and call for car brand rasism.
Non Tesla drivers complain about the short charging cables and they see it as a big failure from tesla having too short charging cables for other cars.
I havent been affected, I have stayed out of the hot spots.
I think the idea of opening for other brands is idealy a good thing for the world but it is not that for the Tesla driver today.
It is not Teslas job to fix the problem with a non existing charging network for all other car brands.
Let's not just see the short-term pains, this is a longer-term process. Tesla will have to provide longer cables for this to work. It's probable that their future site designs are different to better accommodate other cars. What we are seeing now is using existing infrastructure and make it do something different than it was designed for.
The problem of queuing is not specific to Tesla. Hopefully with enough chargers, compatible with everyone, it will not be a problem in the future. Same for slow charging cars. With enough chargers, and future cars charging faster, it will probably get better. There's no queuing systems at most gas stations, sometimes they overflow, and people manage.
Tesla is not fixing everyone's problem. I'm sure they are not there to kill all other providers. They have the widest and most reliable network, they are simply opening it up for others. This lets them get government grants to help pay for the infrastructure costs, which then benefits everyone. Other providers have access to the same grants.
Personally, it also affects me negatively. I'm trying to think long term instead of just thinking about myself, that's all.
The problem of queuing is not specific to Tesla. Hopefully with enough chargers, compatible with everyone, it will not be a problem in the future. Same for slow charging cars. With enough chargers, and future cars charging faster, it will probably get better. There's no queuing systems at most gas stations, sometimes they overflow, and people manage.
Tesla is not fixing everyone's problem. I'm sure they are not there to kill all other providers. They have the widest and most reliable network, they are simply opening it up for others. This lets them get government grants to help pay for the infrastructure costs, which then benefits everyone. Other providers have access to the same grants.
Personally, it also affects me negatively. I'm trying to think long term instead of just thinking about myself, that's all.
My concern is congestion as more vehicles try to charge, and the slow charging speeds of some of the non-Teslas. Having to wait while a non-Tesla is slowly charging seems quite insane. I think Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs max charge at 50kW. Would be annoying to wait while a bunch of those tried to charge! Defeats the purpose of having supercharging when the vehicles clogging the network can't supercharge.
Not to mention, lots of drivers don't realize you don't charge to 100% full, but rather to full enough. I hope Tesla at least does some Ramsey pricing, ie, uses multiple charging rates for Teslas and non-Teslas. You don't want to create a financial incentive for non-Teslas to ignore Chargepoints and EVGO and EVAmerica, etc., because it's cheaper. You still want those 3rd-party charging networks to be a non-Tesla's priority. You want Tesla's network to be last choice, for non-Teslas, but to create opportunity to reach destinations that might have been unreachable given the lack of 3rd-party charging infrastructure. You could even do increasing charge rates to make it clear a vehicle shouldn't charge to 100% full, so, for example, after hitting 80% SOC, increasing the kWh charge by 50% or something along those lines to make it clear that charging to full is not optimal.
Not to mention, lots of drivers don't realize you don't charge to 100% full, but rather to full enough. I hope Tesla at least does some Ramsey pricing, ie, uses multiple charging rates for Teslas and non-Teslas. You don't want to create a financial incentive for non-Teslas to ignore Chargepoints and EVGO and EVAmerica, etc., because it's cheaper. You still want those 3rd-party charging networks to be a non-Tesla's priority. You want Tesla's network to be last choice, for non-Teslas, but to create opportunity to reach destinations that might have been unreachable given the lack of 3rd-party charging infrastructure. You could even do increasing charge rates to make it clear a vehicle shouldn't charge to 100% full, so, for example, after hitting 80% SOC, increasing the kWh charge by 50% or something along those lines to make it clear that charging to full is not optimal.
The 100% argument applies even to Tesla today. I also hear some people that don't want to precondition their battery on purpose, which makes them charge slower. We're not standing at supercharger sites checking everyone's charge speed and target SOC and yelling at them because they're not optimal. At that rate, we should complain at older S/X cars because they hog a V3supercharger with their ~120kW max? 
Being concerned is fine, and the concerns are valid. There will be friction in the short-term. Just try to think longer-term and what makes sense for all.
Being concerned is fine, and the concerns are valid. There will be friction in the short-term. Just try to think longer-term and what makes sense for all.
One of the biggest issues organizations face when considering installing Tesla charging (Superchargers or Destination) is the ubiquitous question of favoritism. If Tesla can put that issue to bed forever, getting permission to install will be much easier, which means more installations.
The biggest benefit though is to society. It will accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation and energy.
The biggest benefit though is to society. It will accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation and energy.
Mockingbird
Member
I don't understand the question.
Today, ICEVs can get gas at any gas station.
Nobody asks: What are the advantages for General Motors users since all Chevron gas stations are publicly available?
Today, ICEVs can get gas at any gas station.
Nobody asks: What are the advantages for General Motors users since all Chevron gas stations are publicly available?
In Sweden Tesla has (slightly) higher rates for non tesla but for a small montly fee you get the same rate. This is very much cheaper than the other brands of fast chargers. People do not go to ionity chargers because of this, they go to the Tesla SuC.
One other reason is that for other brands regularly 50% of the chargers is broken but at Tesla its much less than 10%.
One other reason is that for other brands regularly 50% of the chargers is broken but at Tesla its much less than 10%.
Which highlights exactly why it's a good thing for everyone that Tesla open up. Imagine arriving to a charger with 10% SOC or less and seeing all chargers broken. It doesn't make sense. In the short term, people flock to Tesla chargers and I would do the same. This reduction in charging, and thus revenue, at other chargers will trigger a response. Money always talks. Good companies that want to stay in business will investigate and figure out reliability is the reason and they will fix it, or they will go out of business.
A few of your points don't make sense, because ALL Tesla stations can't become publicly available. They will have to build new stations (or additional chargers at existing stations) with the standard L3 EV connector, not a Tesla connector. So, non-Tesla users can't take up spots at Tesla chargers because they physically can't use the plug.
roblab
Active Member
Here in Napa Valley, we have two large supercharger sites of 20+ chargers each, ten miles apart. On the rare occasions I have charged I have seen very few cars charging, and never anything but Teslas. If other brands could use the empty chargers, well and good: Tesla would get more money. As I drive a Model S, my charging is free anyway, so it wouldn't affect me.
I have only experienced a full charging site ONCE, where I had to wait all of three minutes for a car to vacate a charger. As another poster has said, if the chargers fill up, Tesla will simply build more, as they did at Kettleman City. In other words, I'm not too worried.
I have only experienced a full charging site ONCE, where I had to wait all of three minutes for a car to vacate a charger. As another poster has said, if the chargers fill up, Tesla will simply build more, as they did at Kettleman City. In other words, I'm not too worried.
Opening up chargers to other EVs will make Tesla qualify for Federal Government $$$$$$$. With this money they can roll out thousands of more Superchargers. Will help all manufacturers as well as Tesla owners.
Mockingbird
Member
Exactly. It's like a gas station.
The gas station doesn't care about who you are or what you drive.
So as long as you can pay, that's what matters.
The questions and implied concerns are obvious.
Teslas has built and owns the Tesla Supercharger network that is currently, in North America, exclusive to Teslas.
When they open it up (especially given that Tesla owners would have to buy an adapter to use other DCFCs) will Tesla give priority and/or benefits to Teslas?
Mockingbird
Member
Money is money.
It doesn't matter if it comes from someone driving a Tesla Model S or an Audi e-tron GT.
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