I sure hope a higher capacity battery won't be heavier, the Model S is quite heavy enough as it is, especially in the D configuration. I hope that if and when higher capacity 18650 cells become available their potential is translated a just moderately bigger battery (100kwh) that is also lighter than the current one.
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The more I read here and on the web, the more I realize leasing is the only viable option
with the rapid rate of tech advancement in the Model S.
I just can't imagine myself 4 years down the road, stuck in an RV camp charging my MS
while the others will make the 550mi OH-Myrtle Beach trip on one super(re)charge.
with the rapid rate of tech advancement in the Model S.
I just can't imagine myself 4 years down the road, stuck in an RV camp charging my MS
while the others will make the 550mi OH-Myrtle Beach trip on one super(re)charge.
I bet the next battery capacity will be around 115 kWh and that we will see it within the next year, certainly before the Model X ships. I think by then they will discontinue the S60. Both the Model S and X I believe will be available with 85 and ~115 kWh battery options. This will increase the range of both vehicles and that will be especially important for the Model X.
When the higher battery capacities ship it will very quickly diminish the values of S60s.
When the higher battery capacities ship it will very quickly diminish the values of S60s.
cpa
Active Member
Most of the participants in this (and other similar threads) appear to be experts on all matters that concern Tesla Motors. Others are car buffs who really know a lot about automobiles and the features and technology being developed and implemented into newer cars. When I ordered my S85 in April, I had NEVER heard of Tesla Motors until about a week before my wife and I took a test drive. Moreover, I had never heard of all-wheel drive nor autopilot for cars until the announcement in October. In no way am I upset or annoyed that my car, delivered in late May, did not have these options or was even contemplated by Tesla back in April.
We all do not have the knowledge and keen interests that many replies to these threads imply. We may not have the resources, or we may not understand how or where to look. We may have more pressing issues in our lives that keep us from sifting through internet forums to glean information that may influence our decisions.
Everybody (even Elon Musk!) is ignorant, only in different things. Tesla Motors should consider that premise as their cars become more and more popular, and available to a larger percentage of the population. Tesla does not advertise. Accordingly, they need a slightly different approach to announcing and implementing their upgrades and enhancements so the "ignorant" customers can make a reasonably informed decision about what features to buy and whether to buy now or delay until the feature is available.
We all do not have the knowledge and keen interests that many replies to these threads imply. We may not have the resources, or we may not understand how or where to look. We may have more pressing issues in our lives that keep us from sifting through internet forums to glean information that may influence our decisions.
Everybody (even Elon Musk!) is ignorant, only in different things. Tesla Motors should consider that premise as their cars become more and more popular, and available to a larger percentage of the population. Tesla does not advertise. Accordingly, they need a slightly different approach to announcing and implementing their upgrades and enhancements so the "ignorant" customers can make a reasonably informed decision about what features to buy and whether to buy now or delay until the feature is available.
I don't think it would diminish the S60 value. The larger battery pack won't make the S85 cheaper. The Model 3 base will have the same or less range than the S60, which means that S60 owners will increasingly find the Supercharger network more usable.
Also, I do not think they will discontinue the S60 until the Model 3 or a cheaper competitor has a measurable impact on demand. No S60 adds $8k to the cost of the car, which is a significant chunk of change for "stretchers" and lower mileage drivers (including people who are thinking about a 2nd Tesla). The S60 still offers margin with options, and a 115kWh pack won't interest people who aren't automatically opting for the 85kWh.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The way it might impact S60 values is if they drop the price of the S85 to the same level. So far there is no indication they are going to do that (esp. given they aren't at the point of demand constraint yet and they still need the cash for Model 3 development). If they simply just dropped the S60, I don't think it will have as big an impact on resale.
And given Elon skipped the chance of dropping the S60 this time, I agree with ItsNotAboutTheMoney that it is unlikely for Tesla to do so until the Model 3 comes out. The S60 will probably stay around for now as the "value" option for Tesla, until the Model 3 can fill that role.
And given Elon skipped the chance of dropping the S60 this time, I agree with ItsNotAboutTheMoney that it is unlikely for Tesla to do so until the Model 3 comes out. The S60 will probably stay around for now as the "value" option for Tesla, until the Model 3 can fill that role.
dauger
Member
I vote for:
It has happened before in other industries, and there are third-party solutions. For Apple products there are grass-roots guides like:
iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy
which looks at patterns in years of past upgrades to predict when the next upgrade is due. Perhaps someone could track the intervals between changes in features or options (Battery Pack A vs. B, rear door sizing, interior options, etc.), then predict when the next change is due to say Buy Now/Neutral/Don't Buy. Only now there might be enough data to do it.
I'm fine with the D announcement, because I am very happy :biggrin: with my P85, so I'm sticking to my plan: when my P85's 8-year warranty is up, get a P110D with everything. :wink:
It has happened before in other industries, and there are third-party solutions. For Apple products there are grass-roots guides like:
iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy
which looks at patterns in years of past upgrades to predict when the next upgrade is due. Perhaps someone could track the intervals between changes in features or options (Battery Pack A vs. B, rear door sizing, interior options, etc.), then predict when the next change is due to say Buy Now/Neutral/Don't Buy. Only now there might be enough data to do it.
I'm fine with the D announcement, because I am very happy :biggrin: with my P85, so I'm sticking to my plan: when my P85's 8-year warranty is up, get a P110D with everything. :wink:
Blu Zap
Grinning member
@dauger
Good point. I bought my P85+ with the plan to keep it 8 years. That is what I usually do with all my vehicles. If I wanted the latest/greatest, I would lease and churn. The most expensive alternative.
Good point. I bought my P85+ with the plan to keep it 8 years. That is what I usually do with all my vehicles. If I wanted the latest/greatest, I would lease and churn. The most expensive alternative.
Make everyone sign and agreement saying they will not complain or throw a fit when Tesla continues to innovate as a part of the finalizing process of an order
+1 :biggrin:
CarlK
Active Member
Should not be a problem if Tesla just make it an extra ~$10K option above 85 instead of giving us the improvement for (almost) free. I think Tesla has learned the lesson, unfortunately from the whiners, that they will never do that again. They can gradually lower the price of cars with all battery options and eventually drop the 60 kWh hough.
The problem right now is, its really hard to lower the price of a Model S. I mean, the drive unit and battery alone are a LARGE amount of the cost of the vehicle. The Gigafactory is what will be hopefully lowering the cost of the batteries to produce.
5 years ago, I bought a 36" flat screen TV, replacing my old 32" thick one that I'd had for 16 years. At the time, I was SO happy that I got a bigger screen than the old one (and flat too!) and paid ~$750, which is less than the $1,200 I paid for the previous one.
NOW, I see that Wal-Mart is selling them for $147!!! WTH?? Had I know that, I'd have NOT bought my flat screen and just waited for them to get bigger & cheaper. And now that they are so much better/cheaper, it's not like I can just throw away the one I paid $750 for and buy a new one! Yes, it still works just as well as the day I bought it, but man, I feel totally cheated! How can I be happy knowing that someone out there is buying a bigger & better TV than mine right now! How can they (I'm pointing at you, Sanyo, and you too, Wal-Mart!) get away with doing this?
Oh, sorry for getting off topic...
As for the 110kWh Tesla, I'd buy it!
NOW, I see that Wal-Mart is selling them for $147!!! WTH?? Had I know that, I'd have NOT bought my flat screen and just waited for them to get bigger & cheaper. And now that they are so much better/cheaper, it's not like I can just throw away the one I paid $750 for and buy a new one! Yes, it still works just as well as the day I bought it, but man, I feel totally cheated! How can I be happy knowing that someone out there is buying a bigger & better TV than mine right now! How can they (I'm pointing at you, Sanyo, and you too, Wal-Mart!) get away with doing this?
Oh, sorry for getting off topic...
As for the 110kWh Tesla, I'd buy it!
So far we don't know if when a future higher capacity battery is announced that, for example, S85 owners will be able to replace their original battery with the new higher capacity battery.
We do know that S60 owners cannot pay Tesla some amount of money and get an 85 battery installed in their car.
So I would not assume that upgrades to higher capacity batteries will be possible in the future.
We do know that S60 owners cannot pay Tesla some amount of money and get an 85 battery installed in their car.
So I would not assume that upgrades to higher capacity batteries will be possible in the future.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
This is a car forum so basing statistics solely by posts on a forum will result in false figures. I know many people who buy a car (including expensive ones) and then just get on with life -- never looking back. Or when they do look back, and see new options, they don't give a rat's behind about it. It's a "don't sweat the small stuff" attitude. I don't have that attitude but there are many times that I really wish I did, and I am trying to live my life by not sweating the small stuff.
I suspect that until the Gigafactory is up and running battery upgrades will probably not be part of Tesla's policy.
MarcG
Active Member
From the latest blog from Elon about the gigafactory:
The House Always Wins | Blog | Tesla Motors
I would be surprised if we saw a significant increase in battery capacity for the Model S in the next couple of years.
The House Always Wins | Blog | Tesla Motors
I would be surprised if we saw a significant increase in battery capacity for the Model S in the next couple of years.
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