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What would I "lose" if I opt for AP instead of FSD?


Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
San Francisco
I’m pretty sure this isn’t a thing Nav on Autopilot does. I’ve never been able to activate it on anything other than a limited access freeway with no surface intersections.

NoA in general to me is a regression vs. just changing lanes myself - I find its behavior erratic and unpredictable, requiring a much higher level of vigilance and oversight.
You're right, I was incorrectly bundling it all but the specific feature you quoted from my prior message is called "traffic light and stop light control" or something unnecessarily long.
I tried FSD on a few loaners. You still have to "drive" the car, hands on the wheel, foot near the brake, paying attention to traffic and what the car is doing without your input, and you still have to be actively involved to get through the intersections properly (assuming your software is mapped for your location. Local roads and some main roads, not always.) Frankly, it's easier just to drive the thing, as your brain is on autopilot and muscle memory anyway. Speeding down the off-ramp at 80 mph is unnerving. Autopilot is great on the highway where you can relax a bit but you still have to do the things stated above, and manually use the turn signal to tell the car to change lanes. IMO, not worth the $$.


Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
I want to thank everyone for their comments, this has been a very useful thread so far! So, do I understand correctly, compared with FSD (and considering the things I named in the original post that I knew I’d lose), with “just” AP, I’d lose:
  • green light ding;
  • ability to change lanes and stay in AP (with audio indicators occurring on both exit and entry from AP).
Again, noting that I won’t pay for FSD for “maybe someday” self-driving, and I won’t put my car in someone else’s hands, these are interesting, but I’m not sure they’re worth the price. (FWIW, I did have ONE situation across 10 months in which Summon was useful.)

Any other equally or more subtle capabilities I’d be passing up?

Thank you!


I had a used FSD-ready/subscribed MS75D that "happened" to come that way at my price point. I figured it would be fun to play with over time, but I wouldn't have paid four or five figures for it.

I'm now in the market for another used MS, but I'm considering going with a HW2.5/3 100D/LR with AP instead of a 75D with FSD (they're in the same price ballpark). I never got to try FSD beta with the prior car, and it's pretty clear that (for now) thousands of MS/FSD owners are in the same boat. I'm not sure I want to get in that boat again. And, I'm never going to "rent" my $60K plus car to strangers.

Anyway, I've been reading about what I'd be giving up going with "just" AP, and I feel like I didn't really use those features much. Summon, Smart Summon, Auto Park, Auto Lane Change, NoAP, Stop Sign/Traffic Light control. Those are the things that I think I'd "give up" going with "just" AP.

Am I missing anything? Would the car still beep at me when the light turns green? (Love that.) In highway stop-and-go traffic, would the car still stop and go by itself? Is there a need to "re-engage" AP on the highway for any reason when an FSD-ready car would just do it? With AP enabled, would it change lanes with a stalk pull/press?

Thanks for your insights!

if the price is basically the same, get the FSD........use it when you want and turn it off when you want......having it is much better for features and if price is same , you cant go wrong
you lose nothing but you gain $12k in your investment account
Thank you! Correct me if I'm wrong, though, that is only the case if you later sell the car to a private buyer. I don't think Tesla gives (much?) credit for FSD if you sell/trade it back to them?

And, it's 76 miles of range difference (between the 75D and the 100LR). So, on the one hand, the user (my) experience matters (sounds like there are some FSD features I might miss, even if I never get actual FSD) vs. an eventual sell/trade price (FSD vs. the 76 miles of range).

It's an interesting question. What do you think would be worth more in a private sale (say) four years from now (when the battery warranty expires): FSD or 76 miles of range?

I'm anxious to hear opinions! Thank you!
It's an interesting question. What do you think would be worth more in a private sale (say) four years from now (when the battery warranty expires): FSD or 76 miles of range?

Range is king.

I'll agree that the current 'production' FSD stack is not a huge value-add over regular AP. Auto lane change, Nav on AP, and traffic light controls are certainly useful but $12k is kind of steep. Not sure if basic AP has summon capabilities but that is also pretty useful to me at times. Smart summon is kind of a gimmick - fun to show people (when it works) but I don't know if I would actually trust it in its current state in a busy parking lot.

That all being said, the new FSD stack (beta) is significantly improved and provides a lot more functionality. I still question whether it is worth $12k or not but I guess being able to sign up for the subscription will be a good way to try it to see if it meets your needs should it ever be released fleet-wide.


Active Member
Supporting Member
Aug 1, 2015
Can't you buy a car without FSD and then subscribe to it? that way you avoid the huge up-front cost and can see if it proves to be worthwhile. Just buy a car new enough to have the FSD capability in its hardware, even if it was not activated.

As to the "parlor trick" of Summon, I would agree it can be a modest advantage, but I use it often enough I would miss it. I have used it to move in and out of tight parking spots, as others mentioned. But also to move my car without getting into it, simply for convenience. For example, when washing or cleaning the car, or setting tire pressures (to get a tire valve on top instead of at the bottom of a wheel, save my back a bit), or to check a tire for a nail. Plus, unless I am mistaken, "Summon" also includes the self-parking features, right? I use the curb parking as well as the perpendicular parking now and then. The car can see the curbs better than I, and can accurately split the distance between two adjacent cars very nicely. I do not think you get those parking features these days without FSD. (But i still think FSD is over-priced and i would not pay for it.)

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