What would I "lose" if I opt for AP instead of FSD?

[TigerNinety]

Hello,

I had a used FSD-ready/subscribed MS75D that "happened" to come that way at my price point. I figured it would be fun to play with over time, but I wouldn't have paid four or five figures for it.

I'm now in the market for another used MS, but I'm considering going with a HW2.5/3 100D/LR with AP instead of a 75D with FSD (they're in the same price ballpark). I never got to try FSD beta with the prior car, and it's pretty clear that (for now) thousands of MS/FSD owners are in the same boat. I'm not sure I want to get in that boat again. And, I'm never going to "rent" my $60K plus car to strangers.

Anyway, I've been reading about what I'd be giving up going with "just" AP, and I feel like I didn't really use those features much. Summon, Smart Summon, Auto Park, Auto Lane Change, NoAP, Stop Sign/Traffic Light control. Those are the things that I think I'd "give up" going with "just" AP.

Am I missing anything? Would the car still beep at me when the light turns green? (Love that.) In highway stop-and-go traffic, would the car still stop and go by itself? Is there a need to "re-engage" AP on the highway for any reason when an FSD-ready car would just do it? With AP enabled, would it change lanes with a stalk pull/press?

Thanks for your insights!

Todd

 

[bhzmark]

Auto Lane Change is the most useful. Cruise the highway and change lanes with just your turn signal. Otherwise you have to go in and out of AP every time you change lanes -- sucks and annoying to passengers.

 

[daved619]

We currently own 3 Teslas. '19 X, 21 3, and I just got bought a '21 S Plaid. When we first bought the '19 X we ordered it with FSD for $6k at the time. We opted to not get it on the 3 because I didn't think the lane changing and exit on/off freeway was worth the $10k. I recently bought a pre-owned S Plaid had it and it came w/ FSD with the Beta to drive on the streets. Let me tell you, it is a game changer. It works very well, stops and lights, makes left turns in busy intersections, etc, etc (watch videos on YouTube). To future proof your car, I'd recommend buying one w/ FSD as the convenience is totally worth it. IMHO.

 

[mswlogo]

Auto Lane Change is the most useful. Cruise the highway and change lanes with just your turn signal. Otherwise you have to go in and out of AP every time you change lanes -- sucks and annoying to passengers.

It sucks only to the driver if you do it smooth enough.

 

[bhzmark]

It sucks only to the driver if you do it smooth enough.

even joe mode is too noisy

 

[mswlogo]

even joe mode is too noisy

I wasn’t thinking about the cancel ding. Good point.

 

[QUBO]

Auto Lane Change is the most useful. Cruise the highway and change lanes with just your turn signal. Otherwise you have to go in and out of AP every time you change lanes -- sucks and annoying to passengers.

My 2015 MS90 changes lanes automatically when I engage the turn signal and autopilot is on. The newest models don't have that feature unless you buy FSD?

 

[KyleDay]

My 2015 MS90 changes lanes automatically when I engage the turn signal and autopilot is on. The newest models don't have that feature unless you buy FSD?

Correct

 

[ucmndd]

The only thing you’ll miss even a bit is lane changes. Everything else is once or twice a year party tricks.

 

[KyleDay]

I miss the “ding” at green lights. I found it useful. But $12k or $200/mo for the ding and auto lane change is bonkers

 

[MarcG]

Navigate on AutoPilot is pretty handy too on long road trips. I like to stay in the right lane to be polite (the European in me cringes at hanging out in the fast lane by myself, or having to pass slower vehicles that do that from the right lanes), so I like to let NoAP do the work of initiating lane changes to pass, then exiting the passing lane all by itself.

NoAP is also helpful on highway interchanges and taking the exits, and on suburban highways that have traffic lights so it stops on red or stop signs.

Otherwise I rarely use AutoPark, and yeah Summon is just a party trick.

At $8k I though NoAP was worth it, but at $12k now.. not so sure.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Anyway, I've been reading about what I'd be giving up going with "just" AP, and I feel like I didn't really use those features much. Summon, Smart Summon, Auto Park, Auto Lane Change, NoAP, Stop Sign/Traffic Light control. Those are the things that I think I'd "give up" going with "just" AP.

Any chance the car you’re looking at has EAP instead of just basic AP? That would give you almost everything that FSD offers. Basic AP with just TACC and Autosteer was introduced in early 2019; before that HW2+ cars had either EAP or FSD (or no AP).

 

[Ande]

With AP1, you will totally miss the random phantom braking.

 

[Jughead135]

Summon is just a party trick.

I agree that Smart Summon is just a party trick--I've used that exact phrase before, even though I also like to add, "...but it's a pretty darn cool party trick!"

Summon on the other hand I've actually had to use. Had someone park so $*(^#(@ close to me several weeks ago at the airport that I could barely *get* to the driver door, let alone open it enough to get in. Summon worked as advertised: pulled the car forward about 15', got in, drove away. I gather there are people with super-tight garages who routinely use it to get their car in/out of parking.

 

[MarcG]

I agree that Smart Summon is just a party trick--I've used that exact phrase before, even though I also like to add, "...but it's a pretty darn cool party trick!"

Summon on the other hand I've actually had to use. Had someone park so $*(^#(@ close to me several weeks ago at the airport that I could barely *get* to the driver door, let alone open it enough to get in. Summon worked as advertised: pulled the car forward about 15', got in, drove away. I gather there are people with super-tight garages who routinely use it to get their car in/out of parking.

Yes sorry I should’ve clarified. Regular summon is pretty useful to me as well (though I rarely use it). Smart summon didn’t even work most of the times I’ve tried it.

 

[JimmyB]

I’m in a similar boat, and I guess it all Depends on how / where you drive. I have a tight garage, often parallel park, and take long road trips. So “dumb summon”, auto park and auto lane change are pretty important for me. For others the equation is different.

Looking for my next S, I’m looking for FSD. If EAP were still an option I’d 100% go for that - which, I suspect, is why it’s no longer an option; Tesla would make less money.

 

[ucmndd]

NoAP is also helpful … on suburban highways that have traffic lights so it stops on red or stop signs.

I’m pretty sure this isn’t a thing Nav on Autopilot does. I’ve never been able to activate it on anything other than a limited access freeway with no surface intersections.

NoA in general to me is a regression vs. just changing lanes myself - I find its behavior erratic and unpredictable, requiring a much higher level of vigilance and oversight.

 

[Kairide]

Agree with those who said the automatic lane changes with the turn signal are the only thing worth it with FSD. On city streets FSD is still pretty bad at lights and stop signs. The car will start braking 1/4 mile away from the stop sign and it will be the longest, slowest approach to a stop sign you'll ever have. At traffic lights, even if the light is green it will brake unless you tap the stalk or accelerator signaling the car it's ok to go through. What's the point of recognizing traffic light colors if the default is stop.

 

[TigerNinety]

I want to thank everyone for their comments, this has been a very useful thread so far! So, do I understand correctly, compared with FSD (and considering the things I named in the original post that I knew I’d lose), with “just” AP, I’d lose:

• green light ding;
• ability to change lanes and stay in AP (with audio indicators occurring on both exit and entry from AP).

Again, noting that I won’t pay for FSD for “maybe someday” self-driving, and I won’t put my car in someone else’s hands, these are interesting, but I’m not sure they’re worth the price. (FWIW, I did have ONE situation across 10 months in which Summon was useful.)

Any other equally or more subtle capabilities I’d be passing up?

Thank you!

Todd

 

[Jsvette56]

My wife has FSD on her M3 ver 10.0. It drives worse than my grandson did on his very first time behind the wheel. It made lane mistakes, pulling into a lane of oncoming traffic and made very creaky turns; it shouldn't have been released to anyone. IMHO FSD will always require a driver behind the wheel paying close attention, at least until cars start talking to each other.

I'm still awaiting FSD for my Plaid; I guess my driving score of 97 isn't good enough.