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What would it take to eliminate supercharger pairing?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by mikeash, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    So you pull into a six-stall supercharger where one other guy is charging. You manage to plug into the one stall that's paired with theirs, and now the two of you are sharing 135kW, while 270kW of charging resources sit idle. A bit of a waste!

    I was wondering, what would it take to eliminate this, and allow all charging resources to be shared among all stalls? For the six-stall case, you'd have 405kW total, which could be allocated among the stalls as needed. With 4-6 cars charging, somebody can still get the short end of the stick, but at least it won't happen while capacity is going to waste. You'd eliminate the question of how to label the stalls and how to figure out which one to take when you pull in.

    I assume Tesla has looked at this and determined that it's not worth the effort, otherwise they'd be doing it. And I've never personally run into any problems with pairing, so it doesn't really impact me directly. But it has me curious, just from a technological/electrical perspective, what would it take to build them like this?
     
  2. AB4EJ

    AB4EJ Member

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    You could do this with a high powered switching network; although, this would add cost to the SC and more things to go wrong. Easier would be to color code the stalls so that you could simply look and pick one of a color that someone else is not already using. Simpler makes for less maintenance, and less of the horrible inconvenience when a SC is actually down.
     
  3. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Pairing makes statistical sense. Unless you both pull in at the exact same time, and need the same number of minutes, you are getting more than 1/2 the power for the duration of the charge. Essentially, if there are 6 stalls and 3 charging systems, unless the site is impacted (waiting line), it acts like more than 3 charging systems without much additional expense.

    AFAIK, there is no magic. 3 charging systems can only do 3 cars concurrently at max effort.

    I would almost think a 4:1 system for destination charging is a great idea on a cost effective statistical model. Many cars will fully charged and sitting. And getting a 1/4 charge rate is just a couple hours anyways.
     
  4. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    As simple as this solution could be (and would have been great to start this way)... The labeling system is already in place... 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc... And I prefer that Tesla spend the money on expanding the network than retrofitting and painting old ones.

    Perhaps rather than learn about pairing stalls from the forums, perhaps Tesla should include this in their on-boarding.
     
  5. Dithermaster

    Dithermaster Member

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    If only Tesla drivers would treat Super Chargers like guys treat bathroom urinals, we'd be all set. (for the women reading, let's just say there are rules; you don't take one next door unless it's the only one open, and then sometimes not)
     
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  6. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    I was at a racing event as spectator years ago. There was a line for the men's bathroom of at least 50 guys. Once in the restroom, the line split up in various directions. Some to the toilets, others to the urinals, and 2 other lines. Huh? I ended up in line 3, which was the freakin' sinks! WTF? Well, not to hold up the line, I started my business in the sink. As I was relieving myself I glanced to the left, and there was a guy washing his hands. He looked at me and shook his head. I felt bad, until I realized Line Four was waiting to piss into the floor grate. :D

    Yes, there was security everywhere to keep you from pissin' in the bushes.
     
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  7. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    The trouble is that Tesla doesn't always install the pairs side by side. For example, the new expansion at Newark, DE isn't set up that way. Would be a lot easier if they were consistent!

    I'm impressed at the speed with which this discussion went for details of bathroom usage, though.
     
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  8. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    The internet pisses on everything ...
     
  9. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Yes... Across the country, there are places where it's 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc... then there are the places where it is 1A, 2A... 1B, 2B...
     
  10. Dithermaster

    Dithermaster Member

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    I didn't know that, but it's very interesting. I wonder if Tesla tried them both ways to see what happens (i.e., A/B user testing).
     
  11. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Could be, or there wasn't a standard and it was "up to the installer."
     
  12. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Due to the type of parking. Dedicated tesla vs general/shared.
     
  13. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    #13 CHG-ON, Mar 25, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
    Love this!!! So incredibly true! Thank God the car is filling up, rather than emptying out!

    All I do is look at the label and pick an unused pair. Pretty simple, IMO. When they are all full except one, I just go with it.
     
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  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    That would mean more cost, in the same way that POU payment would add cost to the system.
    What would help would be information that told drivers which stall should be the fastest to take. Of course, that would also add cost.
     
  15. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Almost as simple and far more effective would be for the car to tell you which stall is best as you approach. Tesla could set it up to communicate in real time, and as you approach the SpC bank it can put a graphic up on the center console showing the best stall to take.

    This not only allows it to keep people from sharing unnecessarily through ignorance/confusion, but also allows them to give you the most charged car as a partner when sharing is necessary - and all without the driver having to read numbers or asses colors or anything like that and with no hardware or paint changes to either car or charger and no confusing rollout periods. It also allows Tesla to neatly route around any disabled or degraded equipment and equalize loading/aging if that's a concern.

    For AP equipped cars, this update could eventually include a summon/auto parking derived expansion, based on the perpendicular Autopark that showed up in 7.1 - you get near the SpC array, and a button pops up on the center screen to park at the SpC. When you hit it, the car automatically backs in to the best stall, at the right distance to plug (using the rear sensors to position itself correctly relative to the charger box.)

    If Tesla isn't able to keep up with the rollout, this could also be where they start giving information about wait times - as you approach it can tell you how many cars are in front of you and an estimated wait time (though that'll have to be based on typical charge times, since some folks will charge longer than others.) Of course, that information is really more useful much earlier, and I've talked before about the Navigation tied demand anticipation and re-routing approach I rather expect Tesla to take eventually in areas that have large overlaps in SpC locations to allow it.
    Walter
     
  16. Soolim

    Soolim Member

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    Just colour code the SpC cabinet for A and B, and a little bit of education for the owner is all that is needed.
     
  17. AB4EJ

    AB4EJ Member

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    That's my thinking. But... many of our club buddies prefer something more sophisticated - the car tells you which stall to use, etc. After 45 years of making computers do this and that, I can tell you - SIMPLER IS ALWAYS BETTER!
     
  18. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Or simply stop worrying about it, the paired stalls will add negligible time to your charging, regardless of the situation. The taper happens so soon in the charge cycle that the odds of it actually impacting you in a way you can notice without a stopwatch and graphing software are slim to none.
    The only time it will affect you is if both vehicles arrive at the charger at the exact same time, and with both cars having almost completely empty batteries, and even then it will only add a couple minutes to your charging.
     
  19. smartypnz

    smartypnz Member

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    A nice feature would be colored lighting. For example: once a charger of a pair starts charging, its pair turns orange then slowly changes to green as the charging car decreases load.

    Is there somewhere we can get a layout of stalls for each SC location?
     

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