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What would make you buy a non Tesla electric vehicle?

Blu Angel

Member
Oct 7, 2016
280
259
Mississauga, ON, Canada
I absolutely love every minute driving my Tesla 3 LR.
However, my wife's 2008 Volvo C30 is fab...going strong and very distinguished on the road!
Kind of a modern Volvo P1800.

But I would like to replace it in the next two years with an EV!

My three choices to replace her C30 would be a CUV Electric Vehicle.
There are 3 top models contending for the win:
Tesla Y
Volvo XC40 Recharge
Nissan Ariya

Nissan shows Ariya EV, their upcoming Tesla Model Y competitor - Electrek

I am smitten with the elegant smooth design of the NIssan Ariya.
Nissan promises OTA updates and the best one pedal driving in the EV world, and battery cooling
(BTM or battery thermal management)
Now, if Nissan would "buy into" the Tesla Supercharger network, then I'm sold!!

If Rivian had a charging network like Tesla and could actually drive it 400+ on a charge, I might switch to one of those (pickup)

Hear, Hear.....Rivian should read the tea leaves and REALLY join the Tesla Supercharger network.
They got everything right except for the charging network.
For the Big Dollars they're asking....Rivian customers deserve the BEST SC network on earth! ...... TESLA

Had Audi, Lexus, Volvo and other fine cars before, but my model S P85D is truly the best car I ever had. Love to drive this spaceship! Yet fit and finish is not the best but still acceptable. Really can't go back to an ICE car.
Almost bought a Jaguar I-Pace but the ride, speed and technology don't even come close to the model S...
if it gets better, I'll place an order for a pick-up performance with a big P!

Totally agree...hopefully I will one day afford the Tesla S...my nest Tesla model.

View attachment 470826

My major concern with other EV companies is the charging network. The CCS chargers so far are pretty scarce and not very powerful. We don't use Superchargers all the time by any means, but they are still essential for our use of an EV.

Absolutely, The Tesla Supercharger Network is a humungous moat which other OEM car manufacturers refuse to acknowledge.
It will only take one OEM manufacturer to bite the bullet and embrace the Tesla SC network.
I pray that NIssan (or Volvo or Jaguar) will be the first to join the SC train.

IMHO, many many scores of OEM car owners will jump on board if available.
Finally, IF the Nissan Ariya was available to access the Tesla SC network, I for one would be willing to pay
up front money for this option. (Tesla SC access)
I would say its probably worth $3.000 as an option!!
 

kylec

Member
Jul 31, 2019
40
18
dana point california
I’ve had similar experiences with Tesla and their offensive lack of customer service or willingness to stand behind their vehicle despite the numerous quality issues and therefore I too have decided to just ride it out with my current model S and get another EV as my second one. Yeah it sucks that there will be no fast charging supercharging network with other EVs but at least I won’t be burning My brain cells with a company that has stopped caring about keeping its long time customers happen

exactly this! i used to be a huge fan of Tesla and recommended it to everyone who asked me about it. Not anymore though. raven x will be my last tesla, their service recently is just the worst i've ever experienced. i just don't see myself purchasing another any time soon. will be going back to MB and Porsche where they know how to take car of their customers properly.
 

DoctorVenkman

Member
Jul 29, 2018
428
520
Los Angeles
If a company came out with a full size electric SUV, at a comparable price to the model X, I would absolutely consider it. Brand loyalty only helps companies, not consumers.

That being said we are a long ways away from anyone offering something comparable to a Model X, so I will be sticking with Tesla for the time being.
 

raj_n

Member
Sep 23, 2018
10
13
San Jose
I've only had my model X for 2 months and it is light years in the future. I love the car and technology. I have driven GTR's and Supra's for the past 20 years and now I have an X so that says something. There is a new Ford X competitor announced in November. What do you think would make you move away from Tesla to a different electric manufacturer or do you think you will stay with Tesla? I really don't see moving away from Tesla. My biggest complaints with the X is range, frequent charging and with Tesla as a whole would be shitty customer service. I feel like Tesla will need to step it up once the competition comes in.

None of this S/X owners are buying another Tesla again.. Read this thread.
Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!
 

GoodCook46

New Member
Dec 27, 2018
2
8
Virginia
I owned a Model 3 for 2 days. The rear bumper came off in a heavy rain. I asked to return the car but was ignored for 3 months. (Tesla states in its own return policy that the car can be returned within 7 days with less than 1,000 miles on it). Because I had not opted out of arbitration (who thought I would ever need it?), I had to wait 90 days to take Tesla to arbitration.

Tesla states in its sales contract that it will pay all arbitration costs, but don’t believe everything you read, even in a contract. Tesla continued to stonewall and drag its feet. Tesla did not bother to appear at the mandatory phone conference. When asked, Tesla did not respond to requests from me or the AAA (arbitration association) for dates for a hearing, documentation requests or indeed anything to do with the case.

Tesla also did not bother to attend the hearing, although its attorney finally reached out (hurray! The first conversation of any kind Tesla had deemed to have with me!), but not to talk. He told me to call off the arbitration and he would get me an offer in 30 days. Um, NO. Tesla had ignored my request to return the car for 9 months at that time. It didn’t need an additional 30 days to do the right thing or even to work up an offer.

Then the Tesla attorney told me flat out that if I went through with the arbitration, I would never be allowed to purchase another Tesla, “because we don’t do business with people who force us to pay more than something is worth.”

I should receive my arbitration decision (award) this week. What would it take for me to switch to another (non-EV) car?? It would take nothing. After the way Tesla Motors has treated me because I made a bona fide request for them to honor THEIR OWN contract and return policy, I will never own another Tesla.

The fact that Tesla’s attorney threatened me with being blacklisted if I went ahead with arbitration is laughable. I would not buy another Tesla if it was the last car available on Earth. I would drive any car, an ICE, a Corvair (gasp!), even a Yugo, before I would own another Tesla. That any company would have such a presumptive level of arrogance to assume I would purchase another of its products after all that, and actually threaten to withhold a purchase (as though I am the one who is somehow at fault) does not bode well for Tesla’s continued presence in the automobile industry.
 

Alan Sherman

Member
Feb 20, 2014
21
33
Boca Raton, Florida
I just ordered my 3rd Model S. When I bought my first one, I thought I would never drive anything else. However, the decline in customer service has pissed me off and compelled me to test drive the Audi eTron and the Jaguar iPace. No longer offering a person to answer a phone call to customer service is pretty bad service. Discontinuing the policy of dropping off a loaner car and picking up my car that needs service is forgivable, because other dealers don't offer this, although making the change in the middle of my current lease did rub me the wrong way. So I drove the Audi and Jaguar. They are fantastic cars. Both are as quiet as a Model S and nearly as fast as the Long Distance model that I just ordered. Both have Apple CarPlay, which I wish the Model S had. But the problem is they are SUVs and not particularly good looking ones at that. The Audi is indistinguishable from their ICE SUV. The Jaguar is a cool looking SUV but the rear visibility out the rear window is really bad. None of specs for either car is better than the Model S. So, I put in my order for my 3rd Model S.
 
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MichaelP90DL

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
1,561
1,571
Lancaster, CA
I just ordered my 3rd Model S. When I bought my first one, I thought I would never drive anything else. However, the decline in customer service has pissed me off and compelled me to test drive the Audi eTron and the Jaguar iPace. No longer offering a person to answer a phone call to customer service is pretty bad service. Discontinuing the policy of dropping off a loaner car and picking up my car that needs service is forgivable, because other dealers don't offer this, although making the change in the middle of my current lease did rub me the wrong way. So I drove the Audi and Jaguar. They are fantastic cars. Both are as quiet as a Model S and nearly as fast as the Long Distance model that I just ordered. Both have Apple CarPlay, which I wish the Model S had. But the problem is they are SUVs and not particularly good looking ones at that. The Audi is indistinguishable from their ICE SUV. The Jaguar is a cool looking SUV but the rear visibility out the rear window is really bad. None of specs for either car is better than the Model S. So, I put in my order for my 3rd Model S.
The Supercharger network has been described by financial analysts as Tesla's moat, a really tough barrier to penetrate in order for others to succeed in the EV market space. Tesla's primary vulnerability -- the chink in its armor -- is service. If Tesla doesn't get its act together quickly, it will have corporate buzzards chomping on its guts. Tesla wins if it remains innovative and cool. Ignoring customer needs is severely uncool.
 
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bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,667
2,791
We're likely years away from replacing our 2017 S 100D or 2018 X 100D, so we won't be facing that decision soon.

Today, if we were going to replace one - it would likely be with another S or X, because there isn't another vehicle on the market now or in the near term with the range of S/X, support for long distance fast charging and the improving capabilities of Tesla's AutoPilot system.

Tesla clearly has some challenges right now figuring out how to provide quality support to a rapidly growing number of customers - something no other manufacturer has ever attempted in such a short time frame - especially without relying on 3rd party dealerships.

In the past year, we've had our S & X in for service, and our experience has continued to be positive - with the only visible change was using Uber for transportation vs. getting a loaner (or in the early days going through the hassle of renting an Enterprise vehicle offsite). We've used the mobile service several times - and that's worked well.

So we're willing to be patient, give Tesla some time to work through the short term challenges, get a more scalable customer service and support model in place - and when it's time to replace our S/X, if other manufacturers are able to bring truly competitive vehicles to market, we'll likely strongly consider buying a Tesla again after reviewing the alternatives.

Tesla has come a long way since we purchased our first Model S (P85 in Jan 2013, VIN 3xxx). When our S was delivered, the nearest Tesla Service Center was over 1000 miles away. A 3rd party transport delivered the vehicle to our front door, without anyone from Tesla present. There wasn't a supercharger network, making even short road trips very challenging - and for many years we were stuck in the Texas triangle of superchargers between Houston-Austin-Dallas.

Over the last 6 years, Tesla has made a lot of progress - introducing new vehicles, improving their vehicles through hardware/software changes, building out the supercharger/destination network, expanding service support, … And I expect we'll continue to see Tesla evolve to meet the current round of challenges.
 

caps04

Member
Aug 14, 2014
282
110
NJ USA
Rivian.

They seem to have most of what Tesla offers except a dedicated supercharging network. The day the charging situation becomes acceptable, I’ll buy their pickup.
 

pdq

Member
Jul 1, 2015
227
162
Philadelphia
Absolutely, The Tesla Supercharger Network is a humungous moat which other OEM car manufacturers refuse to acknowledge.
It will only take one OEM manufacturer to bite the bullet and embrace the Tesla SC network.
I pray that NIssan (or Volvo or Jaguar) will be the first to join the SC train.


Blu Angel:
I've told people for year that although I will never own another Tesla, their SC network is the crown jewel of the corporation. Blinding simple business model. Amortize the cost of installing almost zero maintenance SC sites everywhere, buy electricity at commercial rates and sell it at retail rates. Buy low / sell high -- brainless way to make money in every industry.

If Tesla was smart, they'd be actively selling this to every EV manufacturer. And, all they'd have to do is cash checks. Brilliant.
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
540
Virginia/Quebec
Rivian.

They seem to have most of what Tesla offers except a dedicated supercharging network. The day the charging situation becomes acceptable, I’ll buy their pickup.

Suppose they gave you free charging on the EA network for the time you owned the vehicle. Would that do it?

How about a 50% discount on EA?
 

Yinn

Active Member
Nov 15, 2016
2,091
1,873
Behind you
I've only had my model X for 2 months and it is light years in the future. I love the car and technology. I have driven GTR's and Supra's for the past 20 years and now I have an X so that says something. There is a new Ford X competitor announced in November. What do you think would make you move away from Tesla to a different electric manufacturer or do you think you will stay with Tesla? I really don't see moving away from Tesla. My biggest complaints with the X is range, frequent charging and with Tesla as a whole would be shitty customer service. I feel like Tesla will need to step it up once the competition comes in.

From a long term owner perspective, there isn't anything that truly competes with it.

I get into my electric/base model S. No AP, no options of any kind really and there's still immediate benefits.
- First, free internet connectivity and slacker radio. (Now gone supposedly but TBD)
- Second, free supercharging with the availability of reliable road trip charging if needed. (Gone and back)
- Third, free app access to control the car. (Still here)
- Fourth, free continue updates.

It gets better when I do add on options.
- Autopilot..sure.
- Even the S doesn't compare to the X, yes I'm spoiled. I want my door to open and close on it's own.

Some of those started disapearing, and came back. So what would it take? Some of those to continue to disapear because things that brought me over - like superior customer service; is gone already.

What would it take from other automakers? If they can match the above. If they can match value. If they can offer a better interior. A better, more engaging driving experience with better handling specifically. I'm already eying the offerings from Porsche, historically their drive has been pretty darn good. The appointments, ergonomics, etc. But here are the things that will keep me from jumping to Porsche.

- Where do I charge when I'm not charing at home? It's not free, and it's not reliable currently in my area.
- What do I give up in terms of perks? Updates, app access, the technology is huge.
- The price, you've got to be kidding me. The etron is closer; but the above is still an issue.
 
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Kamban

Member
Aug 21, 2019
162
124
South East USA
One thing I have noticed is people want 1. latest tech with the best range and great supercharging network 2. Great fit and finish like their current ICE luxury car. 3. But have the price of the current ICE car.

It cannot happen. You can have two of the three but not all three. The Audi etron has the luxury interior and fit and finish and the 80K price but not the tech. The upcoming Porsche Taycan will have possibly the latest tech minus the SC network and have the luxury interior and finish Porsche is known for but will be a $150-180K car. Let us wait and see if the $80K car will ever materialize. We don't even know what the customer support for Riivian will be let alone their charging network. The less we say about the poor battery life of Leaf, the better.

At this point I don't see Tesla spending much effort or money on upgrading the S or the X. As Musk put it, the future is the Y and the Model3. These are lower end cars and will have the issues of fit and finish for years to come, even if they improve slowly. And as the volume of sales increase, their customer service will become worse, not better.

So live with Tesla with all its faults, or move on to the unknown or known one at a higher price or lower tech. Your choice.
 

Altes

Member
Sep 30, 2016
612
462
SF Bay area
Ok - totally understand and agree but what would you consider? My new commuter X was delayed until Dec (from 2 week estimate). I looked at cars over the weekend. I could not find a better commuter. How could the other car companies be so far behind???
In another year i am hoping there will be audi, porsche and maybe VW
 

Yinn

Active Member
Nov 15, 2016
2,091
1,873
Behind you
One thing I have noticed is people want 1. latest tech with the best range and great supercharging network 2. Great fit and finish like their current ICE luxury car. 3. But have the price of the current ICE car.

It cannot happen. You can have two of the three but not all three. The Audi etron has the luxury interior and fit and finish and the 80K price but not the tech. The upcoming Porsche Taycan will have possibly the latest tech minus the SC network and have the luxury interior and finish Porsche is known for but will be a $150-180K car. Let us wait and see if the $80K car will ever materialize. We don't even know what the customer support for Riivian will be let alone their charging network. The less we say about the poor battery life of Leaf, the better.

At this point I don't see Tesla spending much effort or money on upgrading the S or the X. As Musk put it, the future is the Y and the Model3. These are lower end cars and will have the issues of fit and finish for years to come, even if they improve slowly. And as the volume of sales increase, their customer service will become worse, not better.

So live with Tesla with all its faults, or move on to the unknown or known one at a higher price or lower tech. Your choice.

I don't think it has to be the price of a currnet ICE car; I expect a premium. If the Taycan was $50k and didn't have the charging network or technology - fine. It's a compromise. But to be at $180k, not having the charging network, miss out on the tecnology features; that's a big miss. Don't get me wrong, I love every Porsche I've owned and I haven't driven it; but I have a hard time believing it's $100k better than a Tesla. $100k more than a bolt? Sure.

I'm also comparing it to when I purchased. I purchased my vehicles for about $65k and $80k and I think they were screaming deals for what I got. Would I be willing to pay let's say another $5k/each for improved handling? Definitely. Properly tuned magnetic ride suspension, tighten up the chassis with key welds and braces. Outsource/license some lightweight wheel options for aftermarket support. As for the interior, that I truly don't know how to fix. It isn't bad - the originals were, but the current ones aren't bad at all. But something is missing to make it luxurious. I'm not sure if this is ergonomics or what.
 

Kamban

Member
Aug 21, 2019
162
124
South East USA
I'm also comparing it to when I purchased. I purchased my vehicles for about $65k and $80k and I think they were screaming deals for what I got. Would I be willing to pay let's say another $5k/each for improved handling? Definitely. Properly tuned magnetic ride suspension, tighten up the chassis with key welds and braces. Outsource/license some lightweight wheel options for aftermarket support. As for the interior, that I truly don't know how to fix. It isn't bad - the originals were, but the current ones aren't bad at all. But something is missing to make it luxurious. I'm not sure if this is ergonomics or what.

I agree that the Model3 interior is not luxurious at all - nothing really wrong but the fake leather looks a bit cheap. I have never looked for any panel gaps until I purchased the Model3 and there were tons of posts on it. I saw one rear tail light panel gap but it is something I would not have noticed or cared if it was not pointed out to me. The paint is fine. The only criticism is that the windows could have been standard windows and the door closing could have been a nicer "thunk" sound rather than a metallic thud.

But with Musk focusing on a $40-60K Model 3 and Y I doubt if they will get much better. This is more like a glorified Accord or Camry or Avalon than a 5 or 7 series BMW. Yes, I would like to pay $5K more for a better fit / finish but I guess it would be difficult to get upgraded fit / finish in a Model 3 or Y for 5K more.
 

SandraLN

Member
Feb 10, 2019
10
5
Waterford, Virginia
Funny you should ask....

We've had such a terrible experience with customer service that I can no longer recommend Tesla. A great friend of mine was trying to decide if he should purchase a Tesla or look into one of the BMW electric vehicles. Even though I lost a chance to have him purchase the car using my referral link I could not recommend Tesla. It broke my heart because I really do love my Tesla. I just wish that I could get proper service for my car.
 

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