What would make you buy a non Tesla electric vehicle?

[MSDadMich]

Service from 2017 to present day has become much more difficult. The ranger service is great but getting an appt takes muchlonger now. Getting into a SC is very slow... Could be a month out, but they have always done a great job on my car. The worst case would be body work. I was rear ended last year and it took 4 months to get parts and repair completed at a local body shop.
However, I love driving my Tesla (S) and i cant imagine ever purchasing from a legacy auto mfr again in my lifetime. Its just not going to happen.

 

[ajdelange]

Funny you should ask....

We've had such a terrible experience with customer service that I can no longer recommend Tesla. A great friend of mine was trying to decide if he should purchase a Tesla or look into one of the BMW electric vehicles. Even though I lost a chance to have him purchase the car using my referral link I could not recommend Tesla. It broke my heart because I really do love my Tesla. I just wish that I could get proper service for my car.

So what did you recommend? Given that the biggest concern among contemplative BEV owners is range anxiety and that Telsa is pretty far out in front of any other manufacturer, current or on the near horizon with respect to this (Super Charger network and longer range on a charge) Tesla's "moat" seems pretty wide and deep.

An interesting exercise is to plan or make a roadtrip without using the SC network. It is doable but one pretty quickly develops an appreciation for the SC's.

I think Tesla knows this and while I am sure they appreciate that service is a cancer in their body they are attacking other problems which they deem to be more immediately life threatening at this time.

 

[SO16]

So what did you recommend? Given that the biggest concern among contemplative BEV owners is range anxiety and that Telsa is pretty far out in front of any other manufacturer, current or on the near horizon with respect to this (Super Charger network and longer range on a charge) Tesla's "moat" seems pretty wide and deep.

An interesting exercise is to plan or make a roadtrip without using the SC network. It is doable but one pretty quickly develops an appreciation for the SC's.

I think Tesla knows this and while I am sure they appreciate that service is a cancer in their body they are attacking other problems which they deem to be more immediately life threatening at this time.

I guess I’d rather REALLY enjoy my car for years on end rather than worry about the handful of days over the lifetime of the car that service may be a pain. But that’s just me.

3 years and 44k miles so far and awesome every one!

 

[Yinn]

I guess I’d rather REALLY enjoy my car for years on end rather than worry about the handful of days over the lifetime of the car that service may be a pain. But that’s just me.

3 years and 44k miles so far and awesome every one!

The problem is it eventually stacks up. 4 cars, over a quarter million miles on Teslas. One goes in about once a year. One goes in about every 3 months. The other two are in between. I used to say I've put more miles on Tesla owners than my own cars; but I'm not sure that's true anymore. It does get exponentially bad when multiple are in at the same time as well. Try having 3 cars in at the same time and dealing with that bad service, no loaner, no updates, weeks on end. It gets old fast.

 

[SO16]

The problem is it eventually stacks up. 4 cars, over a quarter million miles on Teslas. One goes in about once a year. One goes in about every 3 months. The other two are in between. I used to say I've put more miles on Tesla owners than my own cars; but I'm not sure that's true anymore. It does get exponentially bad when multiple are in at the same time as well. Try having 3 cars in at the same time and dealing with that bad service, no loaner, no updates, weeks on end. It gets old fast.

that does seem excessive. I’m glad my car hasn’t had those issues. I will bring in my car one time before my warranty expires next summer. I will have them fix a couple minor things that can certainly wait until then. And thanks to the anti Tesa Michigan laws, I do have to take it out of state. I hope Tesla wins the lawsuit next year.

 

[pdq]

So what did you recommend? Given that the biggest concern among contemplative BEV owners is range anxiety and that Telsa is pretty far out in front of any other manufacturer, current or on the near horizon with respect to this (Super Charger network and longer range on a charge) Tesla's "moat" seems pretty wide and deep.
.

Having ordered an taken delivery of a new 2015 P90D, paying $3,000 for the upgrade from an 85Kw battery to a 90Kw battery to get the extra range, I very quickly realized that I wasted $3,000, because 99% of the time, my daily need was less than 50 miles/day.

I would have been way ahead with the $$ if I'd stayed with the standard battery, and used the $3,000 to rent an ICE on the rare occasions where I needed to make an extended trip, where SCs weren't as plentiful.

Almost any EV would fit my lifestyle if the range was around 100 miles and I could plug it into a standard 240V 50 amp line.

 

[Kamban]

Having ordered an taken delivery of a new 2015 P90D, paying $3,000 for the upgrade from an 85Kw battery to a 90Kw battery to get the extra range, I very quickly realized that I wasted $3,000, because 99% of the time, my daily need was less than 50 miles/day.

I would have been way ahead with the $$ if I'd stayed with the standard battery, and used the $3,000 to rent an ICE on the rare occasions where I needed to make an extended trip, where SCs weren't as plentiful.

Almost any EV would fit my lifestyle if the range was around 100 miles and I could plug it into a standard 240V 50 amp line.

Maybe it is me but it is not the most comfortable journey to go long distances in a sedan, especially if there are more than 2 people. I realized that when we transitioned from an ICE sedan to a minivan years ago, and then to SUV. My max in a sedan is 150 miles one way. After that I would use a SUV.

Therefore having a ton of superchargers along the way is not useful for me now until the Model Y comes out. I therefore got only a SR+ for the local and <100 mile driving and charging at home. If the Model Y crossover looks comfortable I will get the longer range version of it. Because of the wing doors, the Model X was ruled out by my spouse who hated it. We could have considered standard or sliding doors, but not the ugly DeLorean style doors.

 

[SO16]

Maybe it is me but it is not the most comfortable journey to go long distances in a sedan, especially if there are more than 2 people. I realized that when we transitioned from an ICE sedan to a minivan years ago, and then to SUV. My max in a sedan is 150 miles one way. After that I would use a SUV.

Therefore having a ton of superchargers along the way is not useful for me now until the Model Y comes out. I therefore got only a SR+ for the local and <100 mile driving and charging at home. If the Model Y crossover looks comfortable I will get the longer range version of it. Because of the wing doors, the Model X was ruled out by my spouse who hated it. We could have considered standard or sliding doors, but not the ugly DeLorean style doors.

DeLorean is single hinge full wing. X is double hinge falcon wing.

I don’t think the X is that great looking of a vehicle compared to Tesla’s other vehicles but riding in it with that huge front window and getting in and out of it (including the rear), is pretty great IMO.

 

[LoveMX]

A well-made car with EAP i.e. without the numerous problems like my Tesla has had. I'll switch then.

 

[APD1080]

No one has the range of a Tesla nor will they until they lose their ICE mindset. They lack the vision to create a nation wide (where ever they sell) super-fast charging network. The traditional ICE manufacturers are relying on other companies to create the charging networks and you can see how that has gone for the past 10 years. Tesla has invested in the battery technology, software and super-fast charging and integrated all of it into a vehicle. They are NOT a vehicle manufacturer the are a TECHNOLOGY company and as everyone knows customer service in the technology industry just sucks!. Has since 1981 when the original IBM PC was released. Ford recently announced they were going to convert all of their vehicles over to over the air software update capability...look how long it took them to figure out what Tesla knew a decade ago. The rest will eventually follow as all lemmings do. Given the current minutia in the OLD traditional manufacturing companies (risk aversion is a big one) Tesla will never be surpassed. If you want plushy interiors and a lot of unnecessary bling buy from one of the other manufactures. If you want the longest range, fastest charging and innovative technology integration it will be Tesla for a long, long time.

 

[Lloyd]

If it had all three:
1. Superior performance
2. Superior range
3. Charging Network

 

[Kamban]

DeLorean is single hinge full wing. X is double hinge falcon wing.

I don’t think the X is that great looking of a vehicle compared to Tesla’s other vehicles but riding in it with that huge front window and getting in and out of it (including the rear), is pretty great IMO.

I did not figure out that difference between DeLorean an Model X but the flapping high seagull like wings in the showroom model put my spouse off it completely. Sticker cost was also a concern but the doors were the primary one.

Luckily we have an Acura Hybrid MDX that can function as a big SUV without guzzling too much gas and is really comfortable for long distances. A Model Y will be good for longer distances with 3-4 passengers

 

[mkspeedr]

DeLorean is single hinge full wing. X is double hinge falcon wing.

I don’t think the X is that great looking of a vehicle compared to Tesla’s other vehicles but riding in it with that huge front window and getting in and out of it (including the rear), is pretty great IMO.

This is why replacing an X is so impossible right now.
I love the front windshield. It makes it feel open compared to other cars.
I love the falcon wing doors - sure they are overly complicated but putting a kid into a car seat makes me hate other doors.
I love the 0-60 acceleration.
I love the auto pilot

The X is the best commute vehicle available right now.

 

[drPearl]

I haven't had to deal with Tesla's infamous poor service, but if I ever do, I would certainly consider.
Other things I'd like:
-Heated steering wheel ( I have Raynaud's, this was a strong disappointment with my 3)
-If XFC (Extreme Fast Charging) (see Asymmetric Temperature Modulation for Extreme Fast Charging of Lithium-Ion Batteries - ScienceDirect) becomes reality with other cars, with more ubiquitous chargers ( I frequently travel into poorly served portions of WI)

 

[caps04]

Suppose they gave you free charging on the EA network for the time you owned the vehicle. Would that do it?

How about a 50% discount on EA?

I am not worried about paying for charging. It definitely is an incentive but the network has to meet a very high bar:

1. Widely available across the country especially highways and popular destinations.
2. There should be a cluster so that I don't have to wait in a queue, so not just 1 or 2 chargers per location.
3. Fast DC charging/Supercharging
4. Well maintained so that I can be confident it won't be down. Better if I can see the status of the chargers in the car nav while planning for the trip.
5. Decent locations like in rest areas, malls, off freeways, etc. I don't want to park and charge in the dark back lot of a dealership with my family.
6. Plug and play via a transparent handshake with the vehicle. I don't want to deal with QR codes, entering credit cards, login, etc. to initiate charging.
7. Reliable charging. It shouldn't stop or slow to a crawl randomly. After I connect the charger, check the estimate time remaining and walk away, I don't want to be surprised with "oops, charging stopped" or babysit it.

Tesla's network has these 7 + free supercharging so you can say I am a bit spoiled.

 

[wycolo]

EA buildout scheme is 4 monster units with 7 DCFC and 1 Chademo. Teslas can use the Chademo. Is TM working on a DCFC adapter??

Check EA progress for your areas of interest; you may be surprised.
--

 

[ajdelange]

WRT to alternative networks: Go to ABRP and try some trips with a car other than a Tesla. You may well find that the Tesla network stations are generally more conveniently located i.e. they tend to be at rest stops or just off the freeways. YMMV, of course, depending on where you go and there are non Tesla chargers at rest stops too. The main thing that will hit you is the rates that are charged off the Tesla network to the point where my yearly north south migrations would cost me more for fuel in a Rivian than in my Lexus SUV. That's why I asked whether free or heavily subsidized charging (through EA, EVGo, Circuit Electrique...) from a company like Rivian would change peoples' minds about such a manufacturer's cars. Recall that Tesla gave free charging to everyone at first.

 

[David99]

The supercharger network used to be the the part where no other EV would have a chance. On my recent road trips I saw how many EA and other chargers are now out there. In fact on some routes there were more option than superchargers. With that advantage fading away, other EVs become real alternatives. Being severely affected by batterygate and chargegate and due to my car having 250k miles, being faced with Tesla's outrageous prices for service and repairs, I'm looking at competitors closely. I do not care about 0-60 times nor in car games. Giving up free supercharging would be a big loss, though.

 

[jbcarioca]

I am considering an I-Pace for Rio de Janeiro solely because Tesla is not yet available here. Were Tesla available I would not even think about anything else.

So, I stopped my purchase because they disabled OTA updates in Brazil because "...our customers really want dealer service not do-it-yourself". That made me fearful of the future. I suspect I would nto ever buy a car from a dealer again. I might retract that pledge, but I doubt that.

Tesla's poor customer service is put in context by OTA updates and fixes. We tend to take those for granted. I don't.

 

[ajdelange]

In fact on some routes there were more option than superchargers.

But what percentage of them are faster than 50 kW and what percentage of them are actually working at any given time? My X gives me about 3 mi/kWh. That means an hour charging at one of the numerous 50 kW non Tesla stations only gives me 150 mi range. The Rivian offerings, 2/3 that (100 mi). It is doable (I've done it in places where there are no Tesla stations) but until the other networks get their faster stations outnumbering the 50 kW ones, Tesla has a strong advantage here.

With that advantage fading away, other EVs become real alternatives.

I think this will happen eventually but I am not holding my breath. Nor, however, am I cancelling my Rivian reservation.