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What would you pay for FSD, if anything?

What price point would you pay for FSD?

  • $12,000

  • $10,000

  • $8,000

  • $6,000

  • $4,000

  • $2,000

  • $1,000

  • $500

  • Free

  • Tesla pays me

  • Tesla should put the effort elsewhere


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Here is more on the hardware front. As I expected, we all got screwed when they yanked the radar last year. The cameras seemed very slow spec just to remove the radar.

I would change my vote and drop what I'd pay even more.

 
Here is more on the hardware front. As I expected, we all got screwed when they yanked the radar last year. The cameras seemed very slow spec just to remove the radar.

I would change my vote and drop what I'd pay even more.

Does anyone buy technology products (phones, computer, smart watches, etc) not assuming eventually they may need to upgrade hardware to accommodate software tech and chip advancement? I know my wife’s Ford is what it is and that’s it. Would I cry and stomp my feet if in 6 years I had to upgrade my computer in my Tesla for 1-2k so it could advance to the current capability? Nope. For me, I would rather have an upgradable car then a timed obsolete car but that’s just me.
 
Does anyone buy technology products (phones, computer, smart watches, etc) not assuming eventually they may need to upgrade hardware to accommodate software tech and chip advancement? I know my wife’s Ford is what it is and that’s it. Would I cry and stomp my feet if in 6 years I had to upgrade my computer in my Tesla for 1-2k so it could advance to the current capability? Nope. For me, I would rather have an upgradable car then a timed obsolete car but that’s just me.
Agreed
Unless you were (for example) told this:

"..as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."

 
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So
Agreed
Unless you were (for example) told this:

"..as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."
^ what 2101 said. It didn't help the shitty way they just pulled the cameras when the software wasn't even close to being ready to handle it. I still have a very negative impression of Tesla from that. I was in the first batch of Model Y's where they did that. It took months before AP/TACC wasn't total crap on my car. It still isn't remotely as good as AP/TACC is on my refreshed Model S that still has radar. I probably have one of the last ones before they gutted the radar from it. It was a knee-jerk response where they had no choice but to pull radar likely as a result of logistical issues. Then they tried to sell us on 100% Teslavision was the way to go.

I am not a Tesla Kool-Aid-swilling Stan. I come from an engineering background and have pretty fair expectations. I know how hard some challenges can be to overcome. However it is pretty obvious Tesla has lied about the prowess of FSD for years. Not to mention there are NO GUARANTEES that the new hardware will be retrofittable to our current cars. Just because Tesla did it in the past, doesn't mean they will in the future. I didn't buy a 100K+ car for the tech to be obsolete in a year with no upgrade path other than to buy a new car...

As for the Samsung cameras, I doubt that will be 6 years in the future. If there was a reasonably priced upgrade path in the future, I would do it. If not, this will be my last Tesla. While I love my S and 3, the competition is closing fast. They also tend to play less fast and loose with the facts. Not that everyone can't be better. I have had other EVs and they got much closer to their rated range than any of my Teslas have.
 
Agreed
Unless you were (for example) told this:

"..as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."

I am definitely not the guy that takes anything on Twitter as facts, but I do take anything written by the company on their specs or ordering page as valid. In this case 2101 is absolutely correct. If new hardware is required to achieve L2, then I expect Tesla to upgrade my car, as I paid for the package which includes it.
 
Does anyone buy technology products (phones, computer, smart watches, etc) not assuming eventually they may need to upgrade hardware to accommodate software tech and chip advancement? I know my wife’s Ford is what it is and that’s it. Would I cry and stomp my feet if in 6 years I had to upgrade my computer in my Tesla for 1-2k so it could advance to the current capability? Nope. For me, I would rather have an upgradable car then a timed obsolete car but that’s just me.
This is not the situation here at all.

What is happening here is analogous to someone selling you a very expensive phone (or other device) with a software package that is currently under development, with the claim that it will be functional "soon". So you go ahead and plop down your money, only to find out that in fact the software is more complicated that they originally thought, so it's going to take a "few more" years and a new device (or expansion thereof) to run that software.

Now I don't have a problem as long as the new hardware is provided to me, and at least so far, Tesla has made good on that promise, and I have no reason to believe they wouldn't continue to do so. But if I have to spend one more penny to get what I paid for in 2018/2019 (and haven't seen delivered to me yet), you can bet that I won't be very happy. It's bad enough already that they haven't been able to deliver what was "right around the corner" (although to be honest, I knew it wasn't at the time, despite what they were saying).
 
This is not the situation here at all.

What is happening here is analogous to someone selling you a very expensive phone (or other device) with a software package that is currently under development, with the claim that it will be functional "soon". So you go ahead and plop down your money, only to find out that in fact the software is more complicated that they originally thought, so it's going to take a "few more" years and a new device (or expansion thereof) to run that software.

Now I don't have a problem as long as the new hardware is provided to me, and at least so far, Tesla has made good on that promise, and I have no reason to believe they wouldn't continue to do so. But if I have to spend one more penny to get what I paid for in 2018/2019 (and haven't seen delivered to me yet), you can bet that I won't be very happy. It's bad enough already that they haven't been able to deliver what was "right around the corner" (although to be honest, I knew it wasn't at the time, despite what they were saying).
Completely understand your view and position. I think I was poking at the way they define “will have capability“ Again Not taking a position on that. Like your expensive phone example, let’s call it iPhone…. It May have the capability to do the photos and video etc as promised to arrive however for it to Fully progress to Advanced capability like FaceTime, moving text emoji’s etc you will need to upgrade the CPU etc. Still “capable“ of the original promise though not to its fullest capability as the tech advances beyond. My Guess (nothing more) is that they will find some way to make FSD compliant in its simplest form to validate “capability“ but an upgrade will likely be needed to go beyond that.
 
Does anyone buy technology products (phones, computer, smart watches, etc) not assuming eventually they may need to upgrade hardware to accommodate software tech and chip advancement? I know my wife’s Ford is what it is and that’s it. Would I cry and stomp my feet if in 6 years I had to upgrade my computer in my Tesla for 1-2k so it could advance to the current capability? Nope. For me, I would rather have an upgradable car then a timed obsolete car but that’s just me.

What's a better model for sustainability?

A technology product that remains the same throughout its life where its passed down from one person to the next until it's so old, and outdated that its a relic? Where only the battery is replaced on an as-needed basis.

A upgradable piece of technology where pieces of it get thrown out or partially recycled at each iteration point. Tesla has already upgraded HW2.X people to HW3. The HW2.X components were being thrown away and in fact some people dumpster dived to get their hands on them. Just how much do we want to keep throwing away? How many sensors, radars, and computers?

Personally I think the "upgradable" is a bit of an illusion when it comes to vehicles. There is just too many variables at play to make that realistic beyond a computer upgrade. You can't add things in new positions or have a radar that has a different footprint. Even a wiring change would be cost prohibitive.

I don't believe HW3 vehicles will be upgradable to HW4. This is one of those short term statements that will either be proven right or wrong. We'll probably know within 6-12 months.
 
What is happening here is analogous to someone selling you a very expensive phone (or other device) with a software package that is currently under development, with the claim that it will be functional "soon". So you go ahead and plop down your money, only to find out that in fact the software is more complicated that they originally thought, so it's going to take a "few more" years and a new device (or expansion thereof) to run that software.

Is it just me or does it feel like the technology world is doing this to consumers fairly regularly?

Around 7 months ago I got an offer from Oura that stated if I upgraded to the Gen 3 Ring that I'd have a free subscription for life. Where it would have nifty new features like workout HR tracking, and some other stuff. That those features required the Gen 3 ring.

At launch the new featured wouldn't be available. But, they'd soon be available.

I decided to get it as I was pretty happy with my Gen 2 at the time. But, then it took them 7 months to introduce the workout HR tracking and it doesn't work for me. It just says "failed to track HR" after each workout. My Apple Watch works perfectly for the same workouts.

Went I asked to return the ring for a refund I was told "the return period of 30 days expired a long while ago" with zero recognition that I couldn't even test the new feature when I bought the ring.

In another example I bought a MiniGita Robot which I figured would make my walks to and from the grocery store a lot more interesting. I enjoy robotic technology and I figured it would be pretty neat. It's designed to simply follow a person as they walk so it can carry a grocery bags worth of stuff.

When I initially tried the Robot it worked okay in overcast lighting, but struggled immensely with any kind of sunshine during the early morning or late afternoon. When it lost track of me it simply stopped and made a sad sound. The support team said new update would likely fix the issue and extended the return period start date to when the new version was launched. This was the right thing to do so I didn't return it. The new update came, but I had mixed results. I'm also having issues with the robot falling on its face if it unexpectedly goes off the sidewalk or there is uneven pavement. Even when I'm careful it still managed to face plant. The last time it was due to a pine cone. It doesn't have any protection for the front sensors and one of the lenses is now scratched. So the plan now is to return it and they'll refund me if their engineers determine its working per their expectation.

These days I mostly feel let down by technology. There are exceptions of course (like OLED TV's), but so much of it feels like were constantly being promised the next update will magically fix it.
 
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I am definitely not the guy that takes anything on Twitter as facts, but I do take anything written by the company on their specs or ordering page as valid. In this case 2101 is absolutely correct. If new hardware is required to achieve L2, then I expect Tesla to upgrade my car, as I paid for the package which includes it.
They upgraded the HW.
 
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In another example I bought a MiniGita Robot which I figured would make my walks to and from the grocery store a lot more interesting. I enjoy robotic technology and I figured it would be pretty neat. It's designed to simply follow a person as they walk so it can carry a grocery bags worth of stuff.

When I initially tried the Robot it worked okay in overcast lighting, but struggled immensely with any kind of sunshine during the early morning or late afternoon. When it lost track of me it simply stopped and made a sad sound. The support team said new update would likely fix the issue and extended the return period start date to when the new version was launched. This was the right thing to do so I didn't return it. The new update came, but I had mixed results. I'm also having issues with the robot falling on its face if it unexpectedly goes off the sidewalk or there is uneven pavement. Even when I'm careful it still managed to face plant. The last time it was due to a pine cone. It doesn't have any protection for the front sensors and one of the lenses is now scratched. So the plan now is to return it and they'll refund me if their engineers determine its working per their expectation.
I don't know what a MiniGita robot is, but it sounds like yours needs a pair of glasses with darkening sunglass lenses!
 
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One big advantage of FSD beta is that auto pilot is enhanced on city streets even when not running FSD. Before I got FSD beta, my car would stop at every light and I had to physically click the right hand lever to ask it to not stop. When speed changed on a city street, I had to physically reduce speed using the right knurled wheel on the steering wheel assembly. Now my speed changes automatically, the car continues through green signal and if red stops and restarts when the signal turns green. Unlike FSD, mode, I steer myself but also do not have to worry about warning for not paying attention even when I am paying attention.
 
One big advantage of FSD beta is that auto pilot is enhanced on city streets even when not running FSD. Before I got FSD beta, my car would stop at every light and I had to physically click the right hand lever to ask it to not stop. When speed changed on a city street, I had to physically reduce speed using the right knurled wheel on the steering wheel assembly. Now my speed changes automatically, the car continues through green signal and if red stops and restarts when the signal turns green. Unlike FSD, mode, I steer myself but also do not have to worry about warning for not paying attention even when I am paying attention.
I don't think this is true.

AP will still ask for confirmation at traffic lights. But it will follow a lead car.
 
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