Two roadsters.... the third is a garage queen with less than 50 miles on it.
Not really spread equally, probably 70-30 although the one that was less problematic has started to have more problems as of late.
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Two roadsters.... the third is a garage queen with less than 50 miles on it.
Not really spread equally, probably 70-30 although the one that was less problematic has started to have more problems as of late.
I forgot to mention the middle line in the "E" of TESLA on the back trunk falling off.
I'm still very happy. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea. Maybe the people on this thread could comment if the issues they've had would discourage them from getting another Tesla? It certainly hasn't discouraged me. I'll never buy another ICE if I have a choice.
Not discouraged, but I think the "less expensive to own than an ICE" is not as valid as one would think. I will definitely get the Extended warranty with my Model S (if offered). I am sure there will be problems with the Model S, we will see what happens. A lot of people are sold on the reliability of the Roadster powertrain, I am a bit scared about what the maintenance costs will be out of warranty. Its very possible that if a Roadster needs a new battery, it could be worth almost nothing (its value may only be parts), this could depress resale completely for all Roadsters and tarnish the Tesla brand.
Right now there is only one choice for long range EV's, so if that is the car you want you have to buy a Tesla. I guess that is the price of being an early adopter!
It sounds to me like there's been a lot more nits with the Lotus components of the car than the Tesla components.
Yea but the nits with the Lotus bits are a lot easier (and relatively cheaper) to rectify. Even if the car were to go out of warranty there are a lot of Lotus shops that can fix the Lotus bits of the vehicle (also parts are widely available for reasonable rates). There is no 40k or even 12k Lotus component that can fail (save the chassis which is unlikely unless the car was in an accident) in the Tesla.
The Tesla specific components (i.e. PEM, Batteries etc) are the most worrisome. If the battery takes a crap at 37k miles, it will cost 40k to fix that part, that will probably be more than 50% of the value of the vehicle. That is a tough pill to swallow. Every time I have been at the Tesla Service Center I have seen at least 1 car in there getting the battery replaced. Very real concern IMO about what owners will do if some of the expensive EV components go bad, after warranty.
W.Petefish
Active Member
Head Unit Replacement - Screen going blank and not recognizing iPod
Water Ingress
PEM Line Fuses
Bad Fan
TPMS Error
Multiple unknown faults related to PEM Line fuses before the fuses blew. (told by TM "Line Noise" when I reported it)
Small Instrument cluster display pixelating
Stereo volume spikes
Power Limited due to heat
Tires
The PEM line fuses blew because of multiple faults associated with power spikes coming from our utility. Power Conditioner on the way to correct the problem. The Take-Home message from that: Have your incoming power to your house analyzed BEFORE you install the HPC. If the voltage is high a power conditioner is needed.
Water Ingress
PEM Line Fuses
Bad Fan
TPMS Error
Multiple unknown faults related to PEM Line fuses before the fuses blew. (told by TM "Line Noise" when I reported it)
Small Instrument cluster display pixelating
Stereo volume spikes
Power Limited due to heat
Tires
The PEM line fuses blew because of multiple faults associated with power spikes coming from our utility. Power Conditioner on the way to correct the problem. The Take-Home message from that: Have your incoming power to your house analyzed BEFORE you install the HPC. If the voltage is high a power conditioner is needed.
Three TPMS related failures (two wheel sender units plus the front receiver antenna).
Driver side window motor failed (window down, not a rainy day).
Windshield washer fluid pipe clogged (was told it was a build up of mold due to under-use)
One of the boards that is inside the ESS was showing signs of premature wear (this was discovered by engineering after analyzing my logs following a visit for one of the two other issues). If left alone, it would have stranded me at some point in the future...
This is after a little more than 2 years of ownership (including an accident induced four month "break" ). All these items were fixed under warranty, no questions asked.
Driver side window motor failed (window down, not a rainy day).
Windshield washer fluid pipe clogged (was told it was a build up of mold due to under-use)
One of the boards that is inside the ESS was showing signs of premature wear (this was discovered by engineering after analyzing my logs following a visit for one of the two other issues). If left alone, it would have stranded me at some point in the future...
This is after a little more than 2 years of ownership (including an accident induced four month "break" ). All these items were fixed under warranty, no questions asked.
Tesla tends to swap packs because that's the fastest way to get you back on the road. They swap in a refurbished pack with similar condition to the original. But the removed packs are subsequently repaired and refurbished, and used as replacement packs on other vehicles (where else would the replacement packs come from?). It might be as simple as replacing one slice. So I would assume most pack repairs would cost much less than $40k.
Not true, call your local Tesla Dealer and ask them how much a PEM is they will quote you between 10-12k (regardless if they take yours back or not)....Call Tesla and ask them how much a battery pack is (they will quote you between 35-40k regardless if they take your pack back or not)....
Go ahead call them and ask them! Armchair speculation is great but it is more useful to fill this forum with facts instead of speculation (especially when the facts can easily be determined by asking simple questions).
For all the major problems I've had, they've swapped with an equivalent refurbished unit, then sent my unit off for repair/refurbishment, and presumably to be used for the next guy's replacement. The point is, you are paying for the repair+transport+labour, not an entire new unit.
To the extreme: when those fuses in my battery went, a replacement battery was swapped in. Out of warranty, I wouldn't be paying for an entire new battery.
How do they determine the repair? I am looking at my RO right now and it says "Per Engineering Replace PEM"...does your RO for your PEM list exactly what is wrong with the PEM and what needs to be repaired by the factory? That is pretty interesting if they actually do that (I have never seen that on any of my RO's). How can I determine what went wrong on my PEM's and what the repair would be if I was out of warranty? Maybe my RO's are missing some key information that yours has? When I asked the tech that replaced my PEM, he told me that I would have to pay for a whole unit (if it was out of warranty) not the repair (there is no way he could determine what the repair would be, that would be something engineering would have to find out during the refurbishment process). Can you please send me more information on paying just for the repair instead of paying for the whole replacement unit?
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I had something similar.
After a few months of no issues charging 70amp at home, I started to get random issues of line faults at the start of the charge. Perhaps 1 in 2 or 3 charges would trip, and have to be restarted. The initial suspect was noise/spikes on the mains line. After a couple of weeks, I dropped by the Tesla service centre to try on their 70amp HPC. Charge was fine. I got in the car to leave, hit the D button and pop! Complete power failure. Everything went out except for the rear brake lights (which is how I now know what components definitely don't operate off that 12V emergency battery).
Issue was the PEM. Something inside had been intermittently failing and causing the charging errors, until it finally catastrophically failed. The component took out fuses in the PEM, as well as the upstream fuse in the battery compartment itself. Hence the total power failure.
As usual, Tesla were amazing. They swapped out a new PEM and battery, and I've had zero issues with this (or charging at home) since.
We don't get written ROs here, just verbal/email reports. Both reports for my battery have said "fuse in battery compartment blown", "swap battery for equivalent". They identiied the infividual sub-component. The explanation for swap rather than repair was to get me back on the road quicker, and I agreed to it.
I guess there is a difference between individual unserviceable components (such as windscreen wipers, or that 400volt converter at the front) and component made up of other components (such as the battery and PEM). For the latter, I would expect to be paying for the sub-component plus labour, not the entire thing. Just because we talk about the battery/PEM as one component, doesn't mean that it actually is.
Do you really think Tesla would charge $40,000 for a new battery, if a fuse inside blew? I really doubt it. But, I hear 3 days to swap battery, and even the labour cost for that is scary.
Anyway, the issue is mute, because we are at the mercy of Tesla. As Roadsters come out of warranty, we'll soon start to hear how this is handled.
I didn't say anything about the PEM whatsoever.
The pack is built in a modular fashion, so in most cases it should be repairable by swapping components. Right now most (all?) packs are under warranty, and the most expedient action is to just swap it and get the customer back on the road ASAP. But under normal conditions they do NOT give you a new pack. They give you a refurbished one of similar condition (range-wise).
I'd be absolutely shocked if their only response is, "out of warranty, okay it's $40k for a new pack". It's not going to happen because they'll have egg all over their face, and it will undermine sales of new models.
I could see a few scenarios for pack repair:
- They have a standard price for swapping in a refurbished pack, much less than $40k. They keep your old pack and send it back for refurbishment. (My preference!)
- They have a standard price for pack repair/refurbishment. Your pack is removed, shipped, repaired, shipped, and reinstalled. Might take a month or two.
- They remove the pack and send it to California for an estimate. You OK the price and they repair it, return it, and reinstall it. Might take a month or two, and the cost depends on the amount of damage.
2.5 #1077 14,500 miles since October 2010:
Front left turn signal intermittently failing (unsolved)
12V controller failure
12V battery failure
Trunk frozen closed
Ignition key locked (couldn't turn car on or move steering wheel)
ABS controller failed
Water ingress
All sorts of ridiculous issues with the Alpine head unit (I've given up on it)
TPMS faults
PEM/Motor fan failures
Wheel-well liner needed replacement
VMS randomly rebooted
2 UMC replacements
Parking lights randomly turned on (and kept the car "on" -- pump running 24x7) -- bad light switch
Bubble in starshield (paint protectant wrap)
A/C compressor ridiculously loud (replaced)
Woofer enclosure rattling/loose
Play in steering wheel (needed tightening)
Fogging headlights
Stock wiper fluid froze solid (in *slightly* below freezing weather) -- bad choice of fluid
The car's been down to NYC three times for failures and a tech has come up to my driveway an additional 7 times.
Front left turn signal intermittently failing (unsolved)
12V controller failure
12V battery failure
Trunk frozen closed
Ignition key locked (couldn't turn car on or move steering wheel)
ABS controller failed
Water ingress
All sorts of ridiculous issues with the Alpine head unit (I've given up on it)
TPMS faults
PEM/Motor fan failures
Wheel-well liner needed replacement
VMS randomly rebooted
2 UMC replacements
Parking lights randomly turned on (and kept the car "on" -- pump running 24x7) -- bad light switch
Bubble in starshield (paint protectant wrap)
A/C compressor ridiculously loud (replaced)
Woofer enclosure rattling/loose
Play in steering wheel (needed tightening)
Fogging headlights
Stock wiper fluid froze solid (in *slightly* below freezing weather) -- bad choice of fluid
The car's been down to NYC three times for failures and a tech has come up to my driveway an additional 7 times.
A battery realistically can be swapped in 8 hours. Here in the US the labor rate is $175 so if that is 3 days of continuous work, that is $4k in just labor (interesting note I think Tesla pays somewhere in the range of $46/hr to tech's).
I do not think there is a circumstance where the PEM would be opened by the tech's, only engineering can do that. So I guess in your scenario the question I have is, say the tech determines there is a blown fuse, the tech swaps out the PEM and sends the defective PEM to engineering and it is determined that there is something more significant, that is wrong with the PEM. Does Tesla eat the loss? I am just trying to figure out how your scenario would make sense? As far as I know battery & PEM cannot be opened by anyone other than engineering? I just do not see Tesla losing thousands of dollars on repairs because of a misdiagnosis that can only be determined if it is indeed true by engineering.
They probably have a very good idea by now of the statistical likelihood of different failures. They just have to set a price where they on average make some money.
The alternative, as I pointed out earlier, is to send the pack back to CA for a repair estimate. The problem with this is that the customer is without car for an extended period of time. That's why I think they might take the statistical approach.
I am not sure why Tesla has not come out and said this is our strategy to replace out of warranty EV components? would bolster the resale value of our vehicles if people are not guessing what the cost of EV specific repairs may or may not be. Baseline numbers (or a range) would be great on what specific components would cost to replace (and how the process would work). Tesla has made claims that these cars are cheaper to maintain than ICE cars, I think its important they release some long term maintenance numbers to put everyone at ease.
strider
Active Member
To get back on topic.....
2.5 #1098 - 18 months, ~16k miles.
2 unplanned trips to TM:
1 for TPMS error (I think all they did was resync) and loud HVAC (turned out to be a sticker that was left inside one of the air ducts that would flap in the wind)
1 for TPMS error (replaced the rear antenna)
So on the whole very happy - none of the problems rendered the car undriveable so I was able to schedule the service when it was convenient for me..
2.5 #1098 - 18 months, ~16k miles.
2 unplanned trips to TM:
1 for TPMS error (I think all they did was resync) and loud HVAC (turned out to be a sticker that was left inside one of the air ducts that would flap in the wind)
1 for TPMS error (replaced the rear antenna)
So on the whole very happy - none of the problems rendered the car undriveable so I was able to schedule the service when it was convenient for me..
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